D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

[Goemoe]

Thank you Zander. Perhaps it is time to give the wizard something to be loved again. This whole thread shows me, the 5E wizards lacks dearly and has to be houseruled at least some

 

[Coredump]

The Headband isn't really a Wizard item anyway. Wizards shouid have 18 Int by 4th level, so the HoI isn't going to help really.

All 3 classes have something different to offer, which each person or group finds more or less powerful, and acts accordingly. I am continually amazed that different groups have such completely different ideas of which caster is powerful and which one is weaksauce.

 

[Zander]

The Headband isn't really a Wizard item anyway. Wizards shouid have 18 Int by 4th level, so the HoI isn't going to help really.

You can create the headband at 3rd, so you gain the benefit for at least a level. As you're not powerful at that level anyway, every little bonus helps. Also, if for flavour reasons you have chosen a race not normally associated with wizardry, i.e. one that doesn't confer an Int bonus, your Int won't be 18 at 4th level. My evoker is a dwarf.

All 3 classes have something different to offer, which each person or group finds more or less powerful, and acts accordingly. I am continually amazed that different groups have such completely different ideas of which caster is powerful and which one is weaksauce.

Can you please point me to the 103 page thread on this board about how low-level sorcerers are underpowered? Can you also please point me to the 103 page thread on this board about how low-level warlocks are underpowered? For some reason, I'm having trouble finding them. Thanks.

 

[Goemoe]

Also, if for flavour reasons you have chosen a race not normally associated with wizardry, i.e. one that doesn't confer an Int bonus, you're Int won't be 18 at 4th level. My evoker is a dwarf.

One of the most serious RP problems in the 5th edition. At lvl x all and every class xyz will have a 20 in its vital ability score. There is absolutely nothing left of ability differences of the races. But at the creation and early levels, you get sometimes punished for taking this or that race, because it doesn't fit your class choice. Anyone tried to build some wisdom based classes without a human? You get races with +2s for every ability score but wisdom. Sorry for OT, but taking certain ability scores at 4th level for granted shouldn't be done.

All 3 classes have something different to offer, which each person or group finds more or less powerful, and acts accordingly.

The wizard has the biggest selection of spells. Granted, but look at all the other class options and tell me, where the wizard shines with its class options compared to the sorcerer. What can he do better? Not even metamagic (he is a wizard, the magic science guy after all) and most subclass options sound like a sleep spell to the reader.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thank you Zander. Perhaps it is time to give the wizard something to be loved again. This whole thread shows me, the 5E wizards lacks dearly and has to be houseruled at least some

Naw. It's not obvious on first read-through, but the wizard spell list is much broader and more versatile than the sorcerer spell list. Access to Animate Dead, alone, means that the wizard has a better concentration economy than the Sorcerer does. The sorcerer doesn't get Conjure (Minor) Elemental(s), either, so his only choice for generating meat shields is Animate Object, which is extremely short-duration and therefore has to be cast during combat and not in advance. Wizard has Find Familiar, Sorcerer doesn't, so no free advantage for the sorc. Wizard has Leomund's Tiny Hut and Rary's Telepathic Bond, Sorcerer doesn't, so wizard has two of the best rituals in the game but Sorcerer doesn't (unless he spends a feat)--nor even the minor rituals like Water Breathing. The wizard gets Arcane Recovery, which gives him more spells per day than the Sorcerer unless the Sorcerer spends his metamagic on regaining spells, in which case he might as well just be a wizard.

There are things about sorcerers that are nice. Quickened cantrips is nice for instance so you can cast twice per round, or cast Hypnotic Pattern and a cantrip, but it isn't nicer than an air elemental and a cantrip, much less an air elemental, four supercharged skeleton archers doing 1d6+5 each and a cantrip. Wizards don't need enhancement, they're fine, due largely to the strength of their spell list.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You can create the headband at 3rd, so you gain the benefit for at least a level. As you're not powerful at that level anyway, every little bonus helps. Also, if for flavour reasons you have chosen a race not normally associated with wizardry, i.e. one that doesn't confer an Int bonus, you're Int won't be 18 at 4th level. My evoker is a dwarf.

You can't create it at 3rd unless you happen to find the formula, which is one step more uncommon than the item itself. In this case, it's Rare. So in essence, you probably can't create it at third level.

 

[Malovaan]

Can you please point me to the 103 page thread on this board about how low-level sorcerers are underpowered? Can you also please point me to the 103 page thread on this board about how low-level warlocks are underpowered? For some reason, I'm having trouble finding them. Thanks.

How much of the 103 page thread is people disagreeing with the assertion of wizards being underpowered?

*EDIT* - And also how much of this 103 page thread is KarinsDad and Celtavain conversing about things totally unrelated to the power of low-level wizards?

I think that the page count of a thread isn't necessarily indicative of how many people agree with its title

My PC is a 6th level evoker. Another character in the party is a 5th level sorcerer. The game tends to be fairly combat intensive and his sorcerer makes my wizard look pretty pathetic. I really can't blame your players for choosing not to play the wizard dump class.

As to wizards vs sorcerers, wizards have the ability to choose and cast spells depending on the situation, making them in my opinion rather more versatile. At 3rd level a sorceror knows 4 cantrips and 4 spells, my 3rd level wizard knows 3 cantrips and 10 spells, of which 7 can be prepared - I don't think I'd have as much fun without the versatility afforded by the extra spells known. Part-way through a dungeon-delve in which we currently find ourselves, over three encounters I've made use of shield, phantasmal force, scorching ray, sleep and magic missile with other tricks left up my sleeve should the situation warrant it.

What does his sorcerer do that makes your evoker look pathetic? Surely there are times where you have to hand a situational "crowd-control" type spell that totally takes some opponents out of the game in a way the sorcerer wouldn't be able to manage?

 

[Zander]

The sorcerer doesn't get Conjure (Minor) Elemental(s)...

Nor does the wizard. Oh sure, they're on the wizard's spell list but you either have to have a very generous DM (I don't) or you have to use up an additional 3rd level spell slot and an action for each elemental you summon. Summoning elementals just isn't practical for most wizards in 5e.

 

[HarrisonF]

Nor does the wizard. Oh sure, they're on the wizard's spell list but you either have to have a very generous DM (I don't) or you have to use up an additional 3rd level spell slot and an action for each elemental you summon. Summoning elementals just isn't practical for most wizards in 5e.

Can you be more specific about why it would require this? Conjure minor elementals shouldn't require any extra work.... The biggest drawback is the 1 minute casting time, so you need to prepare for it.

 

[Goemoe]

Naw. It's not obvious on first read-through, but the wizard spell list is much broader and more versatile than the sorcerer spell list. Access to Animate Dead, alone, means that the wizard has a better concentration economy than the Sorcerer does. The sorcerer doesn't get Conjure (Minor) Elemental(s), either, so his only choice for generating meat shields is Animate Object, which is extremely short-duration and therefore has to be cast during combat and not in advance. Wizard has Find Familiar, Sorcerer doesn't, so no free advantage for the sorc. Wizard has Leomund's Tiny Hut and Rary's Telepathic Bond, Sorcerer doesn't, so wizard has two of the best rituals in the game but Sorcerer doesn't (unless he spends a feat)--nor even the minor rituals like Water Breathing. The wizard gets Arcane Recovery, which gives him more spells per day than the Sorcerer unless the Sorcerer spends his metamagic on regaining spells, in which case he might as well just be a wizard.

Arcane recovery is no gain vs. sorcery points, I see them equal. Both offer many new choices. The longer spell list is like beating a dead horse. Well yes, but that can't be all and does not help you much in combats and especially during lower levels. Our groups never play beyond level 10, so we have to look at the classes from lvl 1-10 (which meets the name of the topic well) The sorcerer can well get all those rituals easily via feats, no big deal here to. Our sorcerer follows the fey path and gets his sprite familiar as a choice leaving out resistance, more damage and still chose it over the wizard. The sorcerer gets some bang for the buck, the wizard doesn't. The only argument over and over is his spell-list. What about all his class features? Other than arcane recovery there is nothing worth mentioning and that is exactly the point. If the wizard would have some other cool features (which he did in earlier editions) like spell mastery (18th lvl? really who is playing 18th lvl chars?), spell research, meta magic, signature spells or something really great about its schools, we wouldn't have over 100 pages of discussions about the weak and mostly boring (as a class, I would still play one which is a totally different topic. I wouldn't discuss it, if I wouldn't care ) class as written.

Wizards don't need enhancement, they're fine, due largely to the strength of their spell list.

Really? You don't need furniture because you have lots 'n lots of rooms?

My group will revamp the wizard totally. We will split it into Researcher, Specialist(as a single subclass) and Artificer(worth its name). We believe the problem with the wizard has been the vision of the designers to must have specialists as subclasses. Those are not different enough to justify complete subclasses watering the whole wizard down to a boring excuse with a great spellist. I know I can't convice you, but perhaps some designer get a clou in this thread what went wrong. Well yes, it went wrong or we would not have this discussion.