D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

[Arkan Redenford]

Again, im not saying that a wizard has to do damage. Only that he can do. I read a lot of posts here from people complaining that has failed to do ANYTHING and that wizards are a weak class, im only pointing to other direction.

Sure i could be casting web, sometimes i do that. But the ultimate goal is to win the encounter, shatter on both ocasion ended the encounter, it did the job same or better than a web.

And if the ideia is to fight 6 to 8 encounters im not wrong too. I casted one second level spell and ended an encounter. On the first encounter i casted one first level spell and ended that too. And on the third encounter i used one second level and one first level spell. That can hardly be considered "nova", if any wizard that has spend one spell in one encounter is not playing conservative i dont see a point to play a wizard if i cant cast spells. I still had left one second level spell and two first level spell, more than enought to finish 2-3 encounters. And even that, all my party was pratically full on HPs and class features/spells at that point.

And to finish, i only had given an example that a wizard can do damage. Im not saying that this is the best or the only way to play a wizard. Some of you failed to see the importance of the familiar in that story that granted surprise on 2 of 3 encounters and valuable intel.

 

[Cascade]

Some of you failed to see the importance of the familiar in that story that granted surprise on 2 of 3 encounters and valuable intel.

That is very cool...

 

[cmad1977]

Eh. If the wizard is weak I put that squarely on the shoulders of the player.

 

[FrogReaver]

That is not entirely true. Lets analyse a real example.

Last night i played one wizard in a group of 4 players level 3 (Wizard, Paladin, Rogue, Cleric). We had 3 encounters.

On the first one we faced 2 bugbears, that one was very easy. I have scouted the room with my spider familiar and we know what we are facing. The rogue and myself used stealth to get a surprise round and both gained initiative. The rogue did 3d6+3 and i 1d8+3, on second round the rogue hit the bugbear and killed him, on my turn i casted a Tashas Laugh on the second and the combat was over before even began.

The second fight we crossed paths with a group of scouts, was a Dragonborn Spy (MM349 with breath attack) and 4 scouts (MM349), again i scouted the room with my spider. The rogue failed his stealth check was notice but we are aout of sight of the room around a corner. The paladin moved to close the corridor (still of sight), the dragonborn moved to him and managed to hit. The rogue attacked the dragonborn and also hited, my turn, i concentrated a shatter spell and prepared to release the spell behind the dragonborn at the end of the turn, the cleric also moved but missed the dragonborn, then all scouts moved to get view of the party, unaware of my spell. On the end of the turn i got lucky and rolled 21 damage, all scouts failed the save, i did 94 dmg in a single round. The next turn the party managed to kill the dragonborn.

And the third encounter was against another group of scouts, 6 scouts, 2 spy (no dragonborns this time). Again i scouted ahead with my spider and this time we managed to get surprise, included the paladin. This fight was a lot more hard, i casted my last shatter and one burning hands and we won without any downed character. The paladin and the cleric stoped the enemys using dodge and sanctuary, myself and the rogue attacked from distance.

That was a regular day of combats for that group, at the end:
1o Encounter
Paladin Dmg 5/ Cleric Dmg 0/ Rogue Dmg 26/ Wizard Dmg 6
2o Encounter
Paladin Dmg 15/ Cleric Dmg 0/ Rogue Dmg 10/ Wizard Dmg 94
3o Encounter
Paladin Dmg 23/ Cleric Dmg 3/ Rogue Dmg 42/ Wizard Dmg 82

I always calculate info from the games i play like damage per character, and several other things to help me analyse the game.

As can be seen, with a wizard i managed to be top DPR in two of three encounters and the one that i was not i completely disabled the only enemy alive.

In no way im saying that a wizard HAS to be a DPR character, or that this is the best strategy, but what im saying is that IF he wants to be a DPR character he can be, after all the best status a controler can apply to monsters are DEAD.

Wizards are terrible at damage. One example where players aren't attack and the wizard rolls high damage and constantly has the opportunity to to hit and kill multiple lowish hp foes and only has 3 encounters in the day doesn't really change that fact.

 

[Arkan Redenford]

Wizards are terrible at damage. One example where players aren't attack and the wizard rolls high damage and constantly has the opportunity to to hit and kill multiple lowish hp foes and only has 3 encounters in the day doesn't really change that fact.

Ok.

 

[Eltab]

Some of you failed to see the importance of the familiar in that story that granted surprise on 2 of 3 encounters and valuable intel.

My Ranger / Rogue (Arcane Trickster) took Find Familiar just so I could scout out the scenery without getting caught doing it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Eh. If the wizard is weak I put that squarely on the shoulders of the player.

Having played a fair bit of 5E recently (as a player, not a DM, for once in my goddamn life!), I'd say that is true at mid-high levels, for sure, but this thread originated discussing low levels, and looking at low levels, it's certainly fair to say that Wizards are rather weak, in comparison to virtually any other class in the same level range.

Claiming that's "down to the player" doesn't really make a great deal of sense.

I mean, sure, a better player will make better use of their very limited resources and abilities. A more experienced and willing to min-max player will also likely have a more powerful character in terms of build. But you must then compare that to the same player playing a different class - any with very many classes and sub-classes, they will be drastically more effective at low levels.

All you can really do to be successful is a low-level Wizard is:

1) Make sure you have a familiar and understand how best to use that familiar.

2) Pick the "right" spells and cantrips, a very limited selection - what's interesting to me here is that this is actually an arguably worse situation than 2E in some ways (notice all the qualifiers - ritual magic, picking your starting spells, and cantrips being infinite help, but they also limit what is valid - and with bonus spells from INT and specialization in 2E you probably had more 1st and 2nd level spells at lower levels).

3) Be very careful in positioning, because you have both a terrible AC and terrible HP.

4) Probably find a non-magical way to do ranged damage because it's almost certainly better than your cantrips (though the exact math will be complex depending on your targets, which attack cantrip you have - because you probably only have one and probably only should have one or zero, and what access to weapons you have - an elf with a longbow for example is in a pretty good place because you likely have good DEX).

Once you get to significantly higher levels, especially one you get up near and into the double-digit levels, you start having so many spells with so many powerful effects that you may well not even be physically able to cast them all before a long rest hits. At that point, how cunning the player is becomes huge, moreso than with many/most classes.

I just don't think it's helpful to suggest 5E doesn't have many of the same issues with low-level Wizards that 3E and earlier editions had, and simply blame the player.

 

[FrogReaver]

Having played a fair bit of 5E recently (as a player, not a DM, for once in my goddamn life!), I'd say that is true at mid-high levels, for sure, but this thread originated discussing low levels, and looking at low levels, it's certainly fair to say that Wizards are rather weak, in comparison to virtually any other class in the same level range.

Claiming that's "down to the player" doesn't really make a great deal of sense.

I mean, sure, a better player will make better use of their very limited resources and abilities. A more experienced and willing to min-max player will also likely have a more powerful character in terms of build. But you must then compare that to the same player playing a different class - any with very many classes and sub-classes, they will be drastically more effective at low levels.

All you can really do to be successful is a low-level Wizard is:

1) Make sure you have a familiar and understand how best to use that familiar.

2) Pick the "right" spells and cantrips, a very limited selection - what's interesting to me here is that this is actually an arguably worse situation than 2E in some ways (notice all the qualifiers - ritual magic, picking your starting spells, and cantrips being infinite help, but they also limit what is valid - and with bonus spells from INT and specialization in 2E you probably had more 1st and 2nd level spells at lower levels).

3) Be very careful in positioning, because you have both a terrible AC and terrible HP.

4) Probably find a non-magical way to do ranged damage because it's almost certainly better than your cantrips (though the exact math will be complex depending on your targets, which attack cantrip you have - because you probably only have one and probably only should have one or zero, and what access to weapons you have - an elf with a longbow for example is in a pretty good place because you likely have good DEX).

Once you get to significantly higher levels, especially one you get up near and into the double-digit levels, you start having so many spells with so many powerful effects that you may well not even be physically able to cast them all before a long rest hits. At that point, how cunning the player is becomes huge, moreso than with many/most classes.

I just don't think it's helpful to suggest 5E doesn't have many of the same issues with low-level Wizards that 3E and earlier editions had, and simply blame the player.

5e doesn't have many of the same issues that low level Wizards in 3e and other editions had. A single Goblin can't even down a level 1 wizard in 1 hit in 5e (except for criticals). Any goblin hit in earlier editions could kill the level 1 wizard.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Any goblin sneeze could kill a 1st level Magic User in 1st edition!

 

[Spastik]

Straight damage just by casting a spell directly, they probably are a bit weaker, but that's not the way a Wizard works. I normally go out with only fire bolt as my direct damage spell. I can cast suggestion and have an enemy attacker turn on his friends which will add damage. I can cast Haste on the Barbarian so he becomes a whirling death machine. I can cast Dragon's Breath on my Owl familiar and have him strafe enemies with a free disengage (thanks for that idea sage advice!). You can definitely out damage every other class, just have to be creative with it.