D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

I also just recently noticed that my True Strike followed by Witch Bolt attack (which was my ace in the hole combo) doesn't even work at all. Both spells are concentration and True Strike doesn't work if it gets dropped, so even this minor combo doesn't work and is worthless. So, True Strike only works with instantaneous attack spells.

I apologise if this has already been addressed in this thread and I missed it, but True Strike should work with Witch Bolt. The concentration required for this combo is consecutive, not concurrent: you cast True Strike, concentrate on it and then cast Witch Bolt. You then need to concentrate on Witch Bolt but by that time the True Strike has done its job and wouldn't help anyway. The concentration required for Witch Bolt is only to do damage after round 1. If your DM rules otherwise, you probably want to find another game.

I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread, but I worked out a way of getting advantage every round. It has its drawbacks, but it does work. Cast Find Familiar and create an owl. Purposefully fail your initiative check as well as your familiar's. Most DMs will allow you and your familiar to go last. Place yourself immediately ahead of your owl familiar in the initiative order, so you're on zero and your owl on -1. On your go, ready an attack such as Fire Bolt on an opponent for when you have Help against it. Send in your owl to provide Help. That will trigger your attack with advantage. Have your familiar fly a safe distance away. Moving away won't provoke an attack of opportunity from your opponent as owl's have Flyby. Rinse and repeat.
 

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I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread, but I worked out a way of getting advantage every round. It has its drawbacks, but it does work.

This is why I'm glad I'm not your DM any more. (Seriously, I want to be your DM again.)
 

I apologise if this has already been addressed in this thread and I missed it, but True Strike should work with Witch Bolt. The concentration required for this combo is consecutive, not concurrent: you cast True Strike, concentrate on it and then cast Witch Bolt. You then need to concentrate on Witch Bolt but by that time the True Strike has done its job and wouldn't help anyway. The concentration required for Witch Bolt is only to do damage after round 1. If your DM rules otherwise, you probably want to find another game.

It depends on how one interprets the sentence "On your next turn, you gain advantage on your first attack roll against the target, provided that this spell hasn't ended" combined with the rule "You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration".

Anything that can end concentration (damage, going to zero hit points, or casting another concentration spell) would appear to instantly turn off the bonus. True Strike appears to have explicit verbiage in it to prevent getting advantage on another concentration spell. It seems that it needs to be concurrent (as per your words) according to the True Strike spell.

Yes, one can try to say that the concentration of the second spell does not occur until after the attack roll of the second spell, but nothing in the rules seems to support this type of interpretation. True Strike also cannot be used for a reaction spell outside of the caster's turn either (because it only happens "on the next turn").

I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread, but I worked out a way of getting advantage every round. It has its drawbacks, but it does work. Cast Find Familiar and create an owl. Purposefully fail your initiative check as well as your familiar's. Most DMs will allow you and your familiar to go last. Place yourself immediately ahead of your owl familiar in the initiative order, so you're on zero and your owl on -1. On your go, ready an attack such as Fire Bolt on an opponent for when you have Help against it. Send in your owl to provide Help. That will trigger your attack with advantage. Have your familiar fly a safe distance away. Moving away won't provoke an attack of opportunity from your opponent as owl's have Flyby. Rinse and repeat.

That's actually pretty clever. I wouldn't allow it in my game because I think that the game designers purposely went out of their way to prevent players from moving their initiative in order to "game the system" like this (there have been threads here about Rogues lowering their initiative so that they can act after the fighter in the first round). And actually, I cannot find a rule that one can purposely miss their check or drop it to one. I think that the game supplies a mechanic for lowering one's initiative. It's called readying an action.

So, I would allow the wizard to roll normally and the familiar to roll normally. If on round one, the wizard beats the familiar's initiative, then he can ready before the familiar on every single round. If the familiar's init beats the wizard's, the wizard's round one ready action occurs during the familiar's turn on round two. The wizard PC just does not get to control who gets to do an action between himself and his familiar. He cannot force a situation where no PC or NPC can possibly act between himself and his familiar without them readying an action. That's gaming the mechanics.
 

In Lost Mines of Phandelver, my wizard used illusions and Charisma (Deception) to convince a group of goblins that an illusory "bomb" I was holding was the real thing. Since I picked the Illusion School, it was pretty realistic to them. Our group beat the encounter because the goblins pretty much up and ran away after I hurled the first "bomb" nearby and it "exploded" in a huge radius. I sprinkled prestidigitation and ghost sound in for extra effect.

Not every encounter is won by reducing hit points.
 

It depends on how one interprets the sentence "On your next turn, you gain advantage on your first attack roll against the target, provided that this spell hasn't ended" combined with the rule "You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration".

Anything that can end concentration (damage, going to zero hit points, or casting another concentration spell) would appear to instantly turn off the bonus. True Strike appears to have explicit verbiage in it to prevent getting advantage on another concentration spell. It seems that it needs to be concurrent (as per your words) according to the True Strike spell.

Yes, one can try to say that the concentration of the second spell does not occur until after the attack roll of the second spell, but nothing in the rules seems to support this type of interpretation. True Strike also cannot be used for a reaction spell outside of the caster's turn either (because it only happens "on the next turn").

You're missing the point of 5E. It is not legalistic like 3E. Any DM that doesn't allow this competition is being a jerk, period.

There is absolutely no balance problem allowing you to use true strike to set up witch bolt. It would be ridiculous to be that exacting in an edition of D&D not intended for it to be this way.
 

You're missing the point of 5E. It is not legalistic like 3E. Any DM that doesn't allow this competition is being a jerk, period.

Seriously? Somebody interprets a rule differently from you and they are being the jerk?

There is absolutely no balance problem allowing you to use true strike to set up witch bolt.

I didn't say there was a balance problem. I said that there appeared to be explicit words in the True Strike spell that prevent this. I am totally ok if a DM interprets it differently.

It would be ridiculous to be that exacting in an edition of D&D not intended for it to be this way.

DMs adjudicate the rules differently. Some more literally, some less. Ease up. It's not how someone else interprets the rules that is being ridiculous here.
 

In Lost Mines of Phandelver, my wizard used illusions and Charisma (Deception) to convince a group of goblins that an illusory "bomb" I was holding was the real thing. Since I picked the Illusion School, it was pretty realistic to them. Our group beat the encounter because the goblins pretty much up and ran away after I hurled the first "bomb" nearby and it "exploded" in a huge radius. I sprinkled prestidigitation and ghost sound in for extra effect.

Not every encounter is won by reducing hit points.

The wizard in my game has changed countless encounters by the clever use of illusions. He has made whole groups of enemies turn and flee because of what he conjured, and i thought was arguably frightening enough to scare the pants off them. The funniest was when he conjured a gopher to disorient a bunch of drunk orcs, and then a giant spider that attacked a drunk orc, and in his disadvantaged state, failed every time to realize the thing he was trying to squash wasn't even real.
 

Seriously? Somebody interprets a rule differently from you and they are being the jerk?

You're using a rule interpretation so rigid to complain about the wizard being weak that only a jerk DM would make. If your DM is that rigid, no wonder you're not having fun.

DMs adjudicate the rules differently. Some more literally, some less. Ease up. It's not how someone else interprets the rules that is being ridiculous here.

You're using this as an argument for why the wizard is weak. I would say to you ease up some. You're insisting the wizard is weak. The wizard isn't weak. It's just a slow build class like it always was other than 4E I guess. If you prefer the 4E power scale, the same is still available to play.

I had a lot fun with the low level wizard. The only time I haven't had fun is when I was fighting dragons in a bad terrain that were 6 or 7 CR higher than my level. Now they're only 4 or 5 CR above my level, they are much easier. The last dragon we fought had to go run and sit in his pool. We used Leomund's Tiny Hut cast as a ritual from my spell book to set up a barrier the dragon couldn't penetrate. The ranged casters moved in and out of the hut on each turn launching cantrips and attacks without much danger at all. I relaxed and read a book in the hut. Made the fight a cake walk. I don't think I took a point of damage. I like that odd spells like the hut are viable. It's fun.

There's no longer a case for the wizard being weak. Different than 4E. Different than prior editions. Maybe weaker in some ways that previous editions. But still very, very powerful compared to other classes. Give time for more books to come out. I guarantee the class that will gain the most power from additional books will be the wizard because every new book with wizard spells released will benefit them more than other casters and definitely more than martials. It's a matter of time before more options come out that will let Wizard's get a little more oomph to their damage to go along with everything else they have going for them.
 

You're using a rule interpretation so rigid to complain about the wizard being weak that only a jerk DM would make. If your DM is that rigid, no wonder you're not having fun.

Actually, no I'm not. True Strike combined with Witch Bolt has nothing to do with my opinion of 5E wizards.

Saving every round. Only one concentration spell. Yes, those are reasons I dislike the 5E wizard and in fact, all 5E casters. Buffers, blasters, whatever. They are fairly well handcuffed. I do not know of a single RPG or MMORPG where spell casters are handcuffed this much. They might exist, but I don't know about them or play them. 4E is about the only such system and that one was almost all about one round spells. I thought it meh in 4E. I find it worse in 5E. Now the spells may or may not last more than a round, but you only get one of them. WT?

You're using this as an argument for why the wizard is weak. I would say to you ease up some.

Fallacy on your part, so non sequitur. I was just discussing that detail with that poster. That's all. I did not use it as support for why wizards are weak.

You're insisting the wizard is weak. The wizard isn't weak. It's just a slow build class like it always was other than 4E I guess. If you prefer the 4E power scale, the same is still available to play.

I had a lot fun with the low level wizard. The only time I haven't had fun is when I was fighting dragons in a bad terrain that were 6 or 7 CR higher than my level. Now they're only 4 or 5 CR above my level, they are much easier. The last dragon we fought had to go run and sit in his pool. We used Leomund's Tiny Hut cast as a ritual from my spell book to set up a barrier the dragon couldn't penetrate. The ranged casters moved in and out of the hut on each turn launching cantrips and attacks without much danger at all. I relaxed and read a book in the hut. Made the fight a cake walk. I don't think I took a point of damage. I like that odd spells like the hut are viable. It's fun.

There's no longer a case for the wizard being weak. Different than 4E. Different than prior editions. Maybe weaker in some ways that previous editions. But still very, very powerful compared to other classes.

I think that there is a good case that WotC did not balance out low level wizard spells. They run the gamut from super effective (Sleep or Find Familiar) to fairly crappy/specialized (Witch Bolt or Ray of Sickness).

With D&D being around for 40 years, there is no need for that. All spells should have a decent amount of effectiveness.

Give time for more books to come out. I guarantee the class that will gain the most power from additional books will be the wizard because every new book with wizard spells released will benefit them more than other casters and definitely more than martials. It's a matter of time before more options come out that will let Wizard's get a little more oomph to their damage to go along with everything else they have going for them.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. But, I think that like with all past splat books, all classes will tend to go a bit nuts. So, I'm kind of glad that WotC is not rushing to put out more PC splat books.
 


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