D&D 5E ludonarrative dissonance of hitpoints in D&D

you might not be familiar with the meme, but the meme is that these 2 characters dress up as another character when he is having a realestate agent come to his home so that he can sell it and move away from these 2. (i dont remember their reason for dressing up as him though) anyway they introduce themselves to her before he ever does and really begin to annoy her and drive her crazy until when he shows up she takes it all out on him and says she will never sell his house. "hes squidward, your squidward, im squidward!" "this is how hitpoints are suppose to be, thats how hitpoints are suppose to be, im how hitpoints are suppose to be!"

i was just meant to be sharing a harmless meme in the middle of an argument that i figured we wernt to emotionally invested in. i mean i have slight emotional investment but thats mostly just slight exasperation
Ok, so a bit of intended levity?

Fine. I don't do meme's (despite being a techie, I don't do twitter, facebook, snapchat, etc. either...) so I wouldn't know anything about this or what you were trying to do. Thanks for your clarification.
 

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you might not be familiar with the meme, but the meme is that these 2 characters dress up as another character when he is having a realestate agent come to his home so that he can sell it and move away from these 2. (i dont remember their reason for dressing up as him though) anyway they introduce themselves to her before he ever does and really begin to annoy her and drive her crazy until when he shows up she takes it all out on him and says she will never sell his house. "hes squidward, your squidward, im squidward!" "this is how hitpoints are suppose to be, thats how hitpoints are suppose to be, im how hitpoints are suppose to be!"

We have all painted a pretty coherent picture of what hp are. You can take a few statements out of context and string them together to make it sound like we haven't - but we really have. I know you don't like to hear this but pretty much everyone that's contributed to this thread has said that hp are abstractions.

There have been a few alternative systems mentioned - like vitality points where the meat and the other stuff gets separated. I think that kind of system would work better for you than hp=Meat. Simply because the fictional impact of that system is much less than the fictional impact of supernaturally taking a bunch of hits and not dying.

i was just meant to be sharing a harmless meme in the middle of an argument that i figured we wernt to emotionally invested in. i mean i have slight emotional investment but thats mostly just slight exasperation

Sharing memes making fun of those you are discussing with is offensive.
 



1. You have no right to dictate what form a rebuttal to your statements take.
2. Multiple rebuttals to your statements have already been provided and ignored by you.
3. I am not going to go back through pages of discussion and dig them up for you to ignore again.

For completeness sake I will give one example. Please refer to PHB 196.

1. i dont have the right, i know that, ill still pose what i think you should do in order to argue against my entire point instead of just peaces of it.

2. i have not ignored any rebuttal to my statements, but my rebuttals to those rebuttals can be ignored or forgotten at times, like the one bring up below

3. if you dont want put the effort of finding someone else's arguments against me, then dont claim they exist, i did say you could just argue them yourself but i expressed that i was willing to simply respond again to what has already been argued because you claim it should be enough.

One of your main arguments revolves around the existence of damage types and right here we have the PHB telling us that there aren't even rules for them. The only reason damage types exist are so resistance and vulnerability and a few other mechanics can refer to them.

Seems like a flimsy argument would be to base anything on damage types when the rules themselves say they don't have any rules.

theres a problem with the dmg telling us there are no rules for damage types, its lying. a harsh statement i know however if the dmg is being touted here as if its undisputed and infallible words of the truth then thats the only interpretation that can be made, we know damage types have rules, you say as much yourself, you can not both say that damage types have no rules then site rules that involve damage types, those resistances, immunities, and vulnerabilities were just as much a part of my argument as the damage types themselves BECAUSE my point was about how both of them reflect a narrative behind how damage works in the game. if you want to tell me that my claim about how damage types are important in determining the best interpretation of damage as a whole mechanic, then your going to have to argue that with context to the rest of my point, not just isolate it from my thesis like it was never connected to anything.

@Arch-Fiend

Hit points are abstract. Thus they reflect the mechanics of damage by being a measure of a characters durability (how tough they are to defeat/kill). They also are an expression of endurance expended by a character avoiding a lethal attack. And finally, they can also be whatever you need them to be in any given damage instance.

However, what hitpoints are not, they are not always meat. They are not always anything.

yeah i dont disagree that hitpoints are abstract, but being abstract means that what they can be is anything you want them to be, what they do have to be though is some element that involves constitution, which i still agree can reflect many different narratives as to what hitpoints are in relation to what losing them represents. ive also never argued against the idea that hitpoints can be whatever the gm wants them to be, ive only ever argued that if the GAME wants to say that they ONLY mean one thing then thats where ive made my argument and i think thats where my argument actually matters, outside that i have absolutely no idea why you keep arguing with me like i mean more than ive said.
 

Ok, so a bit of intended levity?

Fine. I don't do meme's (despite being a techie, I don't do twitter, facebook, snapchat, etc. either...) so I wouldn't know anything about this or what you were trying to do. Thanks for your clarification.
See, a lotta us are old. Try a 60s or 70s reference, next time.
LOL! That might even be a bit before my time (especially the 60s). Some 70s references I would probably get, but the 80's and 90's are the best IMO. Everything else is... well, inconceivable. ;)

yeah i ment it as a bit of a joke, especially considering i put my own interpretation into one of the unflattering roles in the meme, but if no one gets it then it doesent make much sense i agree. also while i like a lot of stuff (especially music) thats exceptionally older than i am, i am like mid 20's so even if ive seen every episode of red dwarf (best space themed comedy in my opinion) my humor and especially my referential humor is a bit more post 2000's.
 


how many times do i have to say i agree with hp as a completely interpretive abstraction that can mean literally anything you want it to mean in order to shape a creative narrative in the middle of playing the game? an improve tool? must i tattoo it to my forhead?
 

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