D&D 5E Lvl 14 rogue vs. (lvl 14) red dragon

[B.T.]

What a constructive, insightful comment.

I want to like 5e. I really do. But watching the designers struggle with basic design concepts (numbers) is disheartening.

 

[KidSnide]

I don't know Mearls personally and I doubt you do as well so you can't guarantee anything nor can you guarantee everything he's said has been honest. He works for a mega corp so who knows what's a lie and what's not.

I used to play with Mearls back when he was a regular in the New England convention circuit and I'll support the Jester on this. Mearls is a stand-up, straight-forward guy. I don't always agree with his design sensibilities, but he's not a liar. But you don't need to take my word on this. Take a look at the Gen Con videos -- that's not how bulls##t artists act.

-KS

P.S. Hasbro is hardly a small company, but it's not a giant conglomerate either. If you were a Shadowrun character, it wouldn't be worth your time...

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I used to play with Mearls back when he was a regular in the New England convention circuit and I'll support the Jester on this. Mearls is a stand-up, straight-forward guy. I don't always agree with his design sensibilities, but he's not a liar. But you don't need to take my word on this. Take a look at the Gen Con videos -- that's not how bulls##t artists act.

-KS

P.S. Hasbro is hardly a small company, but it's not a giant conglomerate either. If you were a Shadowrun character, it wouldn't be worth your time...

When you work for a big company who pays your check then you are told what to say at times.

 

[Umbran]

He works for a mega corp so who knows what's a lie and what's not.

Here's a thought - if you want to impugn the character of a fellow poster or a designer... don't. This is ad hominem - rude, and weak sauce, rhetorically.

The Golden Rule applies - if you don't want people insulting *you*, then don't insult others. Simple. Clear? I hope so. If not, please e-mail or PM the moderator of your choice. Thanks, all!

 

[Sunseeker]

I want to like 5e. I really do. But watching the designers struggle with basic design concepts (numbers) is disheartening.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the numbers. The math is sound, and while the numbers are high that's why there's a playtest.

Personally the rogue's numbers aren't that bad for level 14. The dragon however needs some serious buffage, more HP, better defenses, and more damage.

But that's not a problem with the numbers. That's just a problem with the specific ones chosen. Since the math works, it's not hard to make some minor adjustments to improve the defenses and output of said dragon.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Well I still don't believe it until I see some proof. Last time I checked, I wad able to express that on these forums or has that changed?

Wotc is a big company at the end of the day who is losing a lot of ground against the other companies so things get said.

Playtest numbers going up means nothing at the end of the day.

Anyway, it's a joke when this is the outcome of what has been done so far. This is worse than first stage material.

 

[RangerWickett]

I think the low-level stuff still works okay. Not a fan of skill dice, but overall, low-level feels alright.

But I think they would have been better served deciding what high-level D&D needs to look like, designing the game to make that viable first of all, then scaling DOWN to figure out what low-level should be like. Then edit and revise to make it fit. But don't just tack on high level play.

 

[Stalker0]

When doing these comparisons I also want to know what the challenge level intended is in 5e.

For example, is a 14th level monster (even a dragon) meant to be a big challenge to 14th level characters, or should the monster be a few levels higher?

Now I definately think the dragon was too easy in this fight and should be beefed up, I'm just debating how much.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I could understand if a whole group took a dragon down quickly but we are talking about one PC. Just beefing up the dragon is obviously not the solution here, there is a fundamental problem with the system.

 

[RangerWickett]

By contrast, a level 10 monster -- a giant mummy -- two-shotted the halfling when I actually ran The Mud Sorcerer's Tomb. The despair aura is very swingy, and hitting for 50 damage per turn is a quick way to kill a frightened PC. He didn't want to use his Ace in the Hole ability to auto-succeed the fear save, and by the time he realized how horrible it was, he was doomed.

Maybe the dragon would have been a threat if it had rolled better, but it was not noticeably more dangerous than the mummy. Plus the mummy has a bunch of resistances.