Lycanthropes vs. Alter Self

[atomn]

It depends on whether your DM considers magically changing shape into something that is larger than you to be a magical effect that increases size, or not.

My feeling is that if a human turns into an ogre, that ogre (at size Large) is normal-sized; it is not under the effects of any magical effect that increases size. An ogre subjected to a magical effect that increases size would be Huge, not Large.

Others feel that since you are normally Medium, and as an ogre you are Large, and that difference in size is due to a magical effect, that the Polymorph is a magical effect that increases size.

I can see the arguments both ways, but I come down on the side of "Polymorph is changing you into a different creature, not altering your size... even if that different creature happens to be a different size to you".

-Hyp.

So if we go with this logic, saying that Enlarge Person works on the human who polymorphed into an ogre, would the person get only a "+2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size." as it states in the Enlarge Person? Or would the bonuses and penalties be different since he'd be huge instead of large?

Using the above logic, could a 15th level druid Wildshaped into a Huge animal and then cast Enlarge Person to grow to gargantuan?

Thanks!

 

[IcyCool]

Enlarge Person doesn't work on animals so Animal Growth is not applicable. I did miss Righteous Might though, thanks. From your stand on the subject, Enlarge Person and Righteous Might are the only core spells that create magical effects that increase size. So there is only one core spell that Enlarge Person won't work with.

Correct. Also note that unless you use the Polymorph line of spells to turn into a creature of type Humanoid, that Enlarge Person won't work with those spells either.

I am aware of Expansion, I play a half giant Fighter/Psychic Warrior in a gladiator campaign. We play with magic/psionic transparency so they would not work together in such a game. They may if a group deems psionics to be nonmagical.

It still wouldn't work, because a Half-Giant is of type Giant, not Humanoid. So he is unaffected by spells that only work on Humanoids, like Enlarge Person, or Charm Person.

And I also agree with Hyp's interpretation of the Polymorph spells.

 

[IcyCool]

So if we go with this logic, saying that Enlarge Person works on the human who polymorphed into an ogre, would the person get only a "+2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size." as it states in the Enlarge Person? Or would the bonuses and penalties be different since he'd be huge instead of large?

The benefits would be whatever the spell grants.

Using the above logic, could a 15th level druid Wildshaped into a Huge animal and then cast Enlarge Person to grow to gargantuan?

According to the new Wildshape errata, no.