M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[darjr]

And as a follow-on, "is there icky subtext in this world that I don't have the right eyes to see?".

(See also the Suck Fairy, who visits the books you loved when you were younger and adds sexism and racism that you discover when you return to them as an adult.)

Tékumel :: The World of the Petal Throne

Tékumel: The World of the Petal Throne.

www.tekumel.com

 

[BookTenTiger]

So what this feudalism discussion has to do with anything? That fantasy worlds are not perfect utopias is not a problem, that their creator is a nazi however is.

It's a futile feudal fight.

 

[Parmandur]

It's a futile feudal fight.

Forsooth, a frivolous feud?

 

[MGibster]

So what this feudalism discussion has to do with anything? That fantasy worlds are not perfect utopias is not a problem, that their creator is a nazi however is.

It started with our ability to compartmentalize and went off from there. Like many threads, once you reach a few hundred posts the conversation will go where it wants to.

 

[Umbran]

Forsooth, a frivolous feud?

Forsooth, you fuel the frivolous and futile feudal feud.

 

[Thourne]

And I'd have to remind you that feudal Japan, however we define feudal, is not feudal England in the 12th century or France in the 10th. Even in Japan itself, what they were doing in the 11th century wasn't necessarily the same as it was in the 14th century. Looking at Japan or any other kingdom/country and holding them up as the feudal standard is just an exercise in futility.



I've got two questions. Who is this "we" you're talking about? Feudalism, however we define it, was scattered throughout many different cultures, geographic locations, and time periods. And you make it sound like there was some concerted organized effort to end feudalism that took the better part of a thousand years. While I didn't specialize in medieval history, I would have expected to have heard of such a movement. What was the movement and who was involved? You also make it seem as though history is heading towards some great progressive goal and that just simply isn't the case.



I'd rather live in ancient China than today's North Korea, Stalin's Soviet Union, or Nazi Germany.



Through no effort of my own, I have it pretty good living in the modern era so I don't give ringing endorsements for any period in the past. I would not be happy to suddenly be transported back to 19th century America, 13th century England, or 8th century BCE Greece. I'm no so keen on looking at the past through rose colored glasses, but at the same time I think it's a mistake to look at it as a crummy place where misery abounded (though that happened sometimes). They were human beings and they had joy, they had fun, they had seasons in the sun even if the stars they could reach were just starfish on the beach.


Yeah, you're right. I've never participated in a D&D game where the object was to overthrow the monarchy and install a dictatorship of the proletariat. But then in most "good" kingdoms, the people enjoy the same rights we expect in western liberal democracies. It's fantasy after all.

Dear god man!
Did you just go Terry Jacks on us?!?

 

[MGibster]

Did you just go Terry Jacks on us?!?

I have it on good authority that it's not technically a violation of the board's rules. But it's still very, very naughty.

 

[Baron Opal II]

based on what I know of Tekumel and it's imperialistic racial hierarchy, not that weird at all. Literally, I don't see any contradiction in Barker being a Nazi and fetishizing a romantic take on Islam or India (both were common among the Nazis), or writing a setting with racially superior humans suppressing racially inferior space aliens. It's all of one piece, a seamless garment of Fascism.

Ah, no. In the setting Humans are not superior; the are one species among many. Some of the other species are allies, some foes, and most are generally neutral. Some of the foes are such due to a profound incompatibility with biology or society, some are so due to an explicit wrong done to them by Humanity. It is not a "seamless garment of Fascism".

The game is centered in a human society because the players are humans.

 

[Hussar]

Ah. I see my mistake. I misused the term feudal. My bad.

How about this instead?

DnD often lampshades the fact that your character lives in a totalitarian regime with horrific laws and no personal rights. Because of this, we treat the setting like it’s modern day USA and never actually bring up this fact.

 

[Mark Hope]

...we treat the setting like it’s modern day USA...

Plenty of us don't. You know, not being from the USA and all...