Mad at Paizo?

Mercador

Explorer
On a recent news post about PF2E Bestiary 2, I was wondering if it was deseperation that announcing stuff so much in advance, to which point Morrus told me that I might be an outlier;

I feel that you might be an outlier with this perception.
To which point I'm starting to wonder why I am so mad at them? It's totally normal for them to go forward and wanting to renew their franchise, DnD did that 5 times already (and I guess we'll see 6th by 2025). So why am I that mad at them? The only thing that I could find is that I'm sad to see all those books going to waste but that's only a material issue. It's like I feel betrayed.

Am I alone with this sentiment? It's a not a joke question, I'm truly curious about this.
 

Enrico Poli1

Explorer
For them, it's a mere matter of survival. PF1 was saturated. They had to publish a new edition and re-do all the material, or die.

I am personally grateful to Paizo. They produced Age of Worms, Savage Tide and other fantastic adventure paths.

But I don't think they'll be able to challenge 5e, whose lessons they failed to learn from.
I'm done with unnecessarily complex games.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
On a recent news post about PF2E Bestiary 2, I was wondering if it was deseperation that announcing stuff so much in advance, to which point Morrus told me that I might be an outlier;



To which point I'm starting to wonder why I am so mad at them? It's totally normal for them to go forward and wanting to renew their franchise, DnD did that 5 times already (and I guess we'll see 6th by 2025). So why am I that mad at them? The only thing that I could find is that I'm sad to see all those books going to waste but that's only a material issue. It's like I feel betrayed.

Am I alone with this sentiment? It's a not a joke question, I'm truly curious about this.
To clarify, I didn’t comment on the probability of your being mad at Paizo for some reason, merely on your perception of them announcing a product as seeming “desperate”. I’m sure plenty of peopleare mad at companies for making new editions.
 

Retreater

Adventurer
Pathfinder 1 had a darned good run of a decade. Paizo (and 3PPs) made a lot of great material for it that created countless hours of enjoyment for many fans.
Sure, I purchased a lot of material for it that I still haven't had the opportunity to use. I've done that for every edition and game system I've ever played. That's on me. I can't blame Paizo for publishing a new edition when I haven't run all of The Mummy's Mask or used every monster in the Bestiary 4. That's like blaming Sony for making a PS5 when you still have PS4 games to play.
The good news is you can still play PF1 material (just like I enjoy playing classic video games). I'm sure you won't have a hard time finding people who still love PF1 to share in the experiences with you.
 

LordEntrails

Adventurer
Because you are emotionally invested in 1E. Maybe you have a history with D&D 3/3.5 and felt that when you moved to PF you found a "forever home"?

It's understandable to feel emotional about something changing or ending. But ask yourself this, is there enough 1E material available that you could play 1E for the rest of your life and not duplicate or run out of stuff? I suspect the answer is yes. So then it's not like you are being "left behind" but rather that their is nothing more you need so Paizo has moved on to something new...
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Since playing RPGs are emotional buy-ins, it makes sense that you'd be mad at the company that is no longer making the game you like.

And while I too am disappointed they went with PF2, I have so much content for PF1, that I can stay with PF1 for the next 10-20 years and not remotely run out of stuff to do. :)
 
I occasionally get angry if I buy an rpg product and it turns out to be terrible, which has certainly happened a few times. But I don't get mad at rpg companies for publishing new rpgs or new editions - it's what they do. Indeed, it's what they have to do to stay in business.
 

Kramodlog

Adventurer
3rd edition (3.0, 3.5 and 3.75 (aka Pathfinder)) lasted more or less 20 years. That is almost as good as 1st edition D&D. It lasted 21 years. Pathfinder had a very good run. It even dethroned D&D for a while.

Paizo pas bound to make PF 2e. The dissapointment comes from the lack of backward compatibility. If people bought PF over 4e it was because of backward compatibility to 3.5. And superior quality.

As for announcing products a year in advance, Paizo has been doing that for ever. And people were complaining of the lack of monsters after 5e's launch, so this sounds like good business.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I won’t be playing it but I hope it’s a good game.
Is the PF1 stuff not really compatible?
Adventures are largely compatible if the monsters have been updated. They made a concerted effort to make sure monsters are of a comparable level. Character options largely are not.
 

Parmandur

Legend
To clarify, I didn’t comment on the probability of your being mad at Paizo for some reason, merely on your perception of them announcing a product as seeming “desperate”. I’m sure plenty of peopleare mad at companies for making new editions.
I wouldn't call it "desperate," but the pace at which they are putting information out there seems manic, compared to other companies.
 

Parmandur

Legend
On a recent news post about PF2E Bestiary 2, I was wondering if it was deseperation that announcing stuff so much in advance, to which point Morrus told me that I might be an outlier;



To which point I'm starting to wonder why I am so mad at them? It's totally normal for them to go forward and wanting to renew their franchise, DnD did that 5 times already (and I guess we'll see 6th by 2025). So why am I that mad at them? The only thing that I could find is that I'm sad to see all those books going to waste but that's only a material issue. It's like I feel betrayed.

Am I alone with this sentiment? It's a not a joke question, I'm truly curious about this.
Your books aren't going to waste, the Paizo Police won't confiscate your older material. I'm sure you are not alone in feeling upset, I'm more personally upset with them for failing to interest me.
 

darjr

I crit!
I'm worried they can't sustain their employee growth, they're quite a large company in terms of staff. If the tales of lacklustre sales continue, I'm worried if there will be mass layoffs.
Wait? What tales? The core book hit number one at Amazon for goodness sake. It made the bestseller list at FREAKING AMAZON.

That’s incredible sales.

I don’t have an iron in this fire. Im not a fan of PF2. FYI. So I’m not biased in that way. So I say this as a third party, PF2 has sold better than almost all other books. Not just RPGs, books!

If making the bestseller list on Amazon isn’t a sign of, not just good, but freakishly amazing sales, then there isn’t one.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I'm worried they can't sustain their employee growth, they're quite a large company in terms of staff. If the tales of lacklustre sales continue, I'm worried if there will be mass layoffs.
Like @darjr says, PF2 sales have been really great by industry standards: if these sales lead to layoffs, that would be due to a business side problem, not the game.
 

Xenonnonex

Adventurer
Wait? What tales? The core book hit number one at Amazon for goodness sake. It made the bestseller list at FREAKING AMAZON.

That’s incredible sales.

I don’t have an iron in this fire. Im not a fan of PF2. FYI. So I’m not biased in that way. So I say this as a third party, PF2 has sold better than almost all other books. Not just RPGs, books!

If making the bestseller list on Amazon isn’t a sign of, not just good, but freakishly amazing sales, then there isn’t one.
Like @darjr says, PF2 sales have been really great by industry standards: if these sales lead to layoffs, that would be due to a business side problem, not the game.
More talking about the hearsay of tons of product leftover at Gencon, and sure Amazon sales have initially been very good, incredible, but the question is whether they can sustain that. And it is looking like sales have been dropping quite a fair bit on Amazon.
 

Parmandur

Legend
More talking about the hearsay of tons of product leftover at Gencon, and sure Amazon sales have initially been very good, incredible, but the question is whether they can sustain that. And it is looking like sales have been dropping quite a fair bit on Amazon.
They've stabilized at a pretty great place, selling better than Starfinder or Call of Cthulu. Is it the best selling RPG of all time? No. If it needed to be they had deeper problems as a company.

The Gen Con thing is weird, though.
 

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