Madness Prestige Domain too powerful?

[Son of Kyuss]

Alright, I've got a power min/max munchkin cleric in my game. I haven't broken the news to players in my game, but I think the Madness Prestige Domain ability is way too unbalanced, the DCs are simply too high.

Okay, we've got 13th levec character (7 cleric 5 Master of shroud, 1 contemplative), with 18 Wis (which he rolled) at level 13th it is 21. The character has the following feats, Spellcasting Prodigy, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Necromancy, plus the character has the periapt of wisdom +6, and +6 from Madness.

Well the munchkin is throwing Destruction and Slaying Living Spells at everything.

I've been reviewing the madness prestige domain from both the defenders of the faith and temple of elemental evil, I am removing it from my campaign.

Any thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

I'd love for a PC to take this ability. First, by that level most true challenges have SR, that should help limit his spells. Second, his own will saving throw are not going to be that good. Take advantage of this will hold persons and charm spells. Hit him with a Mind Fog and then Dominate him. Take advantage of the disadvantage. That will balance this out.

 

[hong]

I'd love for a PC to take this ability. First, by that level most true challenges have SR, that should help limit his spells. Second, his own will saving throw are not going to be that good. Take advantage of this will hold persons and charm spells. Hit him with a Mind Fog and then Dominate him. Take advantage of the disadvantage. That will balance this out.

With a caster level of 13, you would need goodly amounts of SR to be effective. Also, even with the Madness score subtracted from Wis, that still leaves a base score of 21 (the Madness cancels out the +6 Wis item). Combined with good Will saves from all classes, this guy would still be formidably hard to dominate.

The reason Madness is so powerful is because the consequences of a failed save tend to be dire at high levels. Being hit in combat loses you a few hp, but failing your save vs destruction results in instant death. Thus a character with maxed-out spellcasting DCs can be more dangerous than one with maxed-out BAB and/or AC.

I'd just eliminate all prestige domains. Magic is tough enough already at high levels; no need to make it even nastier.

 

[reapersaurus]

not to mention that asi i recall, it;s the only domain that has access to the incredibly-overpowered Rage spell.
BETTER than a BrB's rage?
Bad idea, making a spell that is better than a unique class abiity.

 

[Hatchling Dragon]

This might help

Spell Reflection

PC: "I cast Slay Living against the Dragon."
DM: "Ok, make a saving throw vs... say, what's your DC again?"

Sorry I can't be of more help, don't have the book or module in question, so what I know is what you've said.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

You might want to keep in mind that the character is also, deliberately, going insane. Have him throw some of those spells at the opponents he thinks are attacking. Or maybe, in the heat of battle, he gets a little confused eh?

And Rage? Not that big of a deal. Bolts of Madness and the other stunning spells; now those are tough. From my experience though, I haven't found this prestige class to be any more imbalanced than the others. All of them are at the high end of the power scale (otherwise who would buy those overpriced books?).

 

[Crothian]

The problem isn't the domain, it's the player. He's taking everything he can to maximize the DC of his spells. That is where the problems lie. Get rid of any of the things he using to maximize the DC and you'll solve the problem.

 

[Victim]

Death ward: an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or whatever.

When dungeon crawling, I like to keep this spell up, especially since I know the dungeon is the home of a wizard. Similarly, death attacks are fairly common at high levels, so a simple spell that provides immunity should be common. Also, people going after powrful casters should probably have this up.

 

[Pielorinho]

WOTC has a basic principle: don't balance game mechanic advantages with roleplaying disadvantages.

This is a good principle to throw away, if you're comfortable doing so. If he wants the madness domain, consider letting him keep it -- but he's got to roleplay madness. And it won't be fun.

Suggestions:
-he can develop phobias that require will saves to resist. He doesn't get to choose the phobias; rather, have them develop out of game play (e.g., if someone drops magical darkness on him prior to an attack, require a will save not to become panicked whenever he's in darkness, and don't allow him to get sufficient rest for spellcasting if he's trying to sleep in a dark room).
-He becomes paranoid of the people around him. Pretending that he's not paranoid is mentally exhausting; if he plays through a scene as if he's not paranoid, he's fatigued at the end of the scene.
-Get the cooperation of the other players, and play through some of his nightmares (they get to play evil dream-versions of themselves).

Ravenloft has some great insanity rules; I'm guessing Call of Cthulhu will as well.

It sounds as if he's playing madness as something fun and inconsequential. Make it dark and scary, and it'll be more fun for everyone.

Daniel

 

[Roland Delacroix]

The Wheel fo Time RPG has a decent mechanic for madness. Not great but pretty decent. As well as some good RP orientated feats, PrC's, a new spellcastings system and a system of Reputation that gives everyone the chance to have followers much like 2e. Oh and the character creation changes are excellent starts for RP too. Beautifull book too, well worth the cost just to steal rules even if you never play it. Which is also fun BTW.