D&D 4E Mage hand in 4e: what's the deal?

[pukunui]

My players were all using mage hand to pick up heavy and/or sharp objects and using it to drop them on their enemies. I ruled that it was a Dex vs Ref attack. From a DM's perspective, it got a little annoying because they kept doing it but I couldn't see anything illegal about it so I indulged them.

(On a side note: does anyone know how sunrods are supposed to work in 4e? All the pregen characters have one, but there's no indication as to how they work. I just used the 3.5 rules for them during my playtests.)

 

[Sojorn]

Anyone know how exactly the sustain clause works?

When do you pay the cost? At the very start of your turn? The end? Are there other effects from sustaining it? Does it effectively recast the spell? If it does recast the spell, when does that happen? Right when you pay the cost or whenever you want during your turn? If the sustain only makes it so you can use the ongoing effects of the spell, then what good is a sustain minor on a at-will that takes a minor to cast? So that the hand doesn't drop whatever it's holding maybe?

Yay questions!

 

[Snarls-at-Fleas]

Anyone know how exactly the sustain clause works?

When do you pay the cost? At the very start of your turn?

I guess it "triggers" right after the Start of Turn phase. You choose whever to pay the minor action (leaving you with standart & move for this turn) or dismiss the spell.

 

[pukunui]

Anyone know how exactly the sustain clause works?

When do you pay the cost? At the very start of your turn? The end? Are there other effects from sustaining it? Does it effectively recast the spell? If it does recast the spell, when does that happen? Right when you pay the cost or whenever you want during your turn? If the sustain only makes it so you can use the ongoing effects of the spell, then what good is a sustain minor on a at-will that takes a minor to cast? So that the hand doesn't drop whatever it's holding maybe?

Yay questions!

All it means is that you have to spend a minor action each turn to keep the spell going, otherwise it stops. You would "pay the cost" during the middle of your turn when you take actions. You could think of it as being "recasting the spell", except that it wouldn't go away and come back (which is what would happen if you actually just kept recasting it each round). So, yes, the reason for sustaining a spell is to prevent its effect from ending, which could potentially cause problems (such as a mage hand dropping whatever it's holding).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This spell is absolutely awesome and cool... as all of the other cantrips are... imagine a mage beeing able to sustain a light spell for the whole day...^^

 

[Sadrik]

Does it always stay with you or if you move away from does it vanish?

 

[pukunui]

Does it always stay with you or if you move away from does it vanish?

I don't think it moves with you unless you're directing it to move with you (and there's nothing stopping you from taking it with you as you move through the dungeon). However, I think if the hand was stationary and you happened to move out of the five square range, it could very well vanish. Either that or you just wouldn't be able to control it until you moved back within range.

The only instance where I can see this being an issue is if the hand is needed in a specific place (to hold a door open or something) but you need to move more than 5 squares away from it for whatever reason.

 

[hong]

Yeah, I did the floating sun rod trick too. Very useful to send your floating sunrod to illuminate places you aren't willing or able to go yet.

"I'm sending my sunrod where the sun don't shine."

 

[Vermonter]

I don't think it moves with you unless you're directing it to move with you (and there's nothing stopping you from taking it with you as you move through the dungeon). However, I think if the hand was stationary and you happened to move out of the five square range, it could very well vanish. Either that or you just wouldn't be able to control it until you moved back within range.

The only instance where I can see this being an issue is if the hand is needed in a specific place (to hold a door open or something) but you need to move more than 5 squares away from it for whatever reason.

Actually, this is a significant limitation that does impact the spell and justifies its low level. After the minor action to maintain you have exactly two actions left each round. If you want to move the mage hand you need to use one as a move action to do so. That leaves you only one move action yourself. Also, at no point in time can the mage hand be more than 5 square away.

This has three implications:
1. The wizard carrying a sunrod can't move in 'double time', but only one move per turn.
2. The wizard movement speed is likely reduced from 6 or 7 down to 5 over any period of multiple rounds, or he out paces his mage hand.
3. To keep carrying the sunrod you need to walk up to where it is with your move, and then move it ahead. If using the mage hand to illuminate the path ahead it means the wizard is going to need to be pretty close to whatever he illuminates by the time the sunrod floats forward (assuming 40' shadowy is 8 spaces plus 5 spaces ahead is only 12-13 spaces). And, since the last action is to move the sunrod by necessity, by the time he sees the creature his actions will be over.

All in all a very cool utility spell that I'm looking forward to seeing players use much more than prestidigitation ever was.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Yeah, Mage Hand is not free: you pay for it with actions. Nevertheless a cool addition to all wizards as an at will power. I´ve been waiting for something like this for a long time, and my houserules reflect it...