D&D 4E Mage hand in 4e: what's the deal?

[Xorn]

I had a player with the wizard pick up a rib cage and hold it between three skeletons. Then he blasted the floating rib cage with Acid Arrow. I made him ranged attack a small, helpless target (through cover) to hit the rib cage. He was going for a guaranteed hit (meaning lots of splash damage) rather than trying to blast the center skeleton and miss.

It was innovative enough that I ran with it.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Right, it has a "fast draw" feature, allowing you to put away one item and get another as a single minor action. And it also lets you retrieve items from across the room for yourself or other charecters (good for thrown weapons, which seem to have made a come back in 4E), test things that might be trapped (though in 4E this might not be a good idea), and other telekenisis type stuff.

Well, you'd need to cast it or sustain it in the same round as doing that, so really it would be TWO minor actions.

Fitz

 

[eleran]

In rereading the spell back in the OP I think I would rule that the hand can be sent beyond the original range of 5 squares. The range refers to how far away it can initially be cast, but the text does not set a limit of how far away the hand can go. So, I would think ti would be limited only by LoS and LoE.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So, I would think ti would be limited only by LoS and LoE.

I actually agree with this. The Range 5 is how far you can cast it.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Well, you'd need to cast it or sustain it in the same round as doing that, so really it would be TWO minor actions.

Fitz

Actually, the spell mentions no action with regards to swapping items on your person. So it does only take one minor action to cast or sustain it, and the swapping is essentially free. Cool.

 

[occam]

How do the actions work on this spell? To repeat the pertinent data:

• Takes a minor action to cast.
• "The hand picks up, moves, or manipulates an adjacent object weighing 20 pounds or less and carries it up to 5 squares."
• "As a move action, you can move the hand 5 squares."
• "...as a minor action, you can cause the hand to pick up or manipulate a different object."
• Takes a minor action to sustain.

Questions:

1. Can the hand pick up and move an object up to 5 squares as part of the original minor action to cast, or does moving it require a separate move action?
2. Is the minor action used to pick up an object part of the minor action to cast or sustain, or does it require a separate minor action? If so, what's the point of making pick-up a minor action, when a minor action is always required to cast or sustain the spell (unless there are unseen rules that allow wizards to ignore some minor-action requirements with feats or class abilities)?
3. How many and what kind of actions are required to sustain a mage hand, use it to pick something up, and move it up to 5 squares? One minor to sustain, another minor to pick up, and a move action to move it? If so, that's the caster's whole turn (barring action points).
4. How many and what kind of actions are required to sustain a mage hand and move it up to 5 squares? Minor to sustain, and a move action to move it? If so, the caster has one standard action left; if he or she wants to walk along with the mage hand, that's all of the caster's actions.

In retrospect, I guess it's fine if it requires a caster's full attention to do a lot of things with mage hand. I had an image of a wizard moving around the battlefield, fighting enemies with a mage hand-carried sunrod in tow, but maybe that's not really what it's for.

 

[eleran]

How do the actions work on this spell? To repeat the pertinent data:

• Takes a minor action to cast.
• "The hand picks up, moves, or manipulates an adjacent object weighing 20 pounds or less and carries it up to 5 squares."
• "As a move action, you can move the hand 5 squares."
• "...as a minor action, you can cause the hand to pick up or manipulate a different object."
• Takes a minor action to sustain.

Questions:

1. Can the hand pick up and move an object up to 5 squares as part of the original minor action to cast, or does moving it require a separate move action?
2. Is the minor action used to pick up an object part of the minor action to cast or sustain, or does it require a separate minor action? If so, what's the point of making pick-up a minor action, when a minor action is always required to cast or sustain the spell (unless there are unseen rules that allow wizards to ignore some minor-action requirements with feats or class abilities)?
3. How many and what kind of actions are required to sustain a mage hand, use it to pick something up, and move it up to 5 squares? One minor to sustain, another minor to pick up, and a move action to move it? If so, that's the caster's whole turn (barring action points).
4. How many and what kind of actions are required to sustain a mage hand and move it up to 5 squares? Minor to sustain, and a move action to move it? If so, the caster has one standard action left; if he or she wants to walk along with the mage hand, that's all of the caster's actions.

In retrospect, I guess it's fine if it requires a caster's full attention to do a lot of things with mage hand. I had an image of a wizard moving around the battlefield, fighting enemies with a mage hand-carried sunrod in tow, but maybe that's not really what it's for.

In your turn you get 1 Standard Action, 1 Move action and 1 minor action. So...

minor action to cast the spell. trade your standard action in for a minor action to pick up an object, and a move action to move the hand (with object) up to 5 squares.

The minor action to sustain the spell won't kick in until the characters next turn.

Our wizard in our 4e playtests used the mage hand to hold the sun rod during combat. He parked himself at the back of the group and didnt move around a lot unless pressed by the enemy. As long as he just used his minor to sustain the spell the had a floating light source in the middle of the melee that could be moved around if needed. In one fight the chamber was big enough that only those with low light vision could see something firing at the group from the "darkness. The wizard then moved the sun rod close enough to the archer so that everyone could see it.

 

[Traken]

In your turn you get 1 Standard Action, 1 Move action and 1 minor action. So...

minor action to cast the spell. trade your standard action in for a minor action to pick up an object, and a move action to move the hand (with object) up to 5 squares.

The minor action to sustain the spell won't kick in until the characters next turn.

Possible, but wrong I think.

The original casting (minor action) allows the hand to move 5 squares and manipulate an object. Anything after that requires additional actions and sustaining.

The reason for this is how the power is written. It has the initial effects first, then additional options after that. If it costs a whole turn to be able to use mage hand like this, it would be written this way.

You conjure a spectral, floating hand in an unoccupied square within range. As a move action, you can move the hand up to 5 squares. As a free action, you can cause the hand to drop an object it is holding. As a minor action, you can cause the hand to pick up or manipulate an adjacent object under 20 pounds.

Basically, they'd omit an entire section.

 

[Kraydak]

I'm pretty sure that, unless dropping the object the hand is holding is bad (fragile, pits, things like that), you are better off recasting mage hand (getting a pickup AND move for a minor action) rather than sustaining (getting nothing for a minor action). Similarly, the move action use of mage hand is inferior to recasting it except that the object of interest doesn't get dropped. Which, of course, will frequently be crucial.

But don't be wedded to your mage-hand. That is being action-inefficient.