Magic armor bonus? Pffffft.
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Alomir
First Post
Agar is definitely interested in duplicating the effects of the shield spell in his new Robe of the Alienist - but, note that I do NOT expect this to be an 8K effect. (I'm not trying to put one over on Piratecat. Good luck to me if I were...) Paying for a large armor bonus doesn't do him much good, given that it doesn't stack with mage armor (yes, I know there are other benefits to having the armor bonus in the item, but they're not worth the gold and exp cost).
I'm very interested to hear other opinions on what it SHOULD cost...
I think 16K for the +4 shield bonus sounds pretty reasonable - not sure what else would make sense for that. However, I'm not sure if the 'force effect' (works against incorporeal attacks) should count extra.
As for the immunity to magic missle - double the cost of a brooch of shielding? (So, 3600?)
I'm very interested to hear other opinions on what it SHOULD cost...
I think 16K for the +4 shield bonus sounds pretty reasonable - not sure what else would make sense for that. However, I'm not sure if the 'force effect' (works against incorporeal attacks) should count extra.
As for the immunity to magic missle - double the cost of a brooch of shielding? (So, 3600?)
The Souljourner
First Post
Here's my rule of thumb - making any spell permanent that has a less than 1 hour per level duration is just bound to cause problems. 10 minutes per level is probably fine if it's a low level spell. Anything less than that, and you're asking for trouble.
The number one best thing to do is to compare the magic item to existing effects. +4 shield bonus is a lot like a +3 buckler (no armor check penalty, doesn't take up your hand, etc). That's 9000 right there. Now, it's also a lot like a ring of force shield, which is 8500 for a +2 shield bonus. I don't know how they calculated that, but it looks like bonus squared times 2000 plus a 500 fudge factor. That would imply that an item that gives +4 shield bonus should be 32000, which I actually think is pretty fair, given that it doesn't hinder you in any way. Now for preventing magic missiles.... pretty minor really, but call it 3000 (cost of two brooches of shielding... they kinda suck, but what can you do?).
Total cost: 35,000 for a permanent item that duplicates the Shield spell. Acid test - would I pay that much for that item? Yeah, I think I would. THF and TWF guys would love it, as would most mages (saves on having to cast it every battle).
-The Souljourner
The number one best thing to do is to compare the magic item to existing effects. +4 shield bonus is a lot like a +3 buckler (no armor check penalty, doesn't take up your hand, etc). That's 9000 right there. Now, it's also a lot like a ring of force shield, which is 8500 for a +2 shield bonus. I don't know how they calculated that, but it looks like bonus squared times 2000 plus a 500 fudge factor. That would imply that an item that gives +4 shield bonus should be 32000, which I actually think is pretty fair, given that it doesn't hinder you in any way. Now for preventing magic missiles.... pretty minor really, but call it 3000 (cost of two brooches of shielding... they kinda suck, but what can you do?).
Total cost: 35,000 for a permanent item that duplicates the Shield spell. Acid test - would I pay that much for that item? Yeah, I think I would. THF and TWF guys would love it, as would most mages (saves on having to cast it every battle).
-The Souljourner
Thanee
First Post
I'd have it cost 16k for the shield bonus (same as bracers of armor, they also protect against incorporeal touch attack and shield bonus is obviously worth the same as armor bonus (*)) and just add double the cost for the brooch of shielding, as you said, resulting in 3k.
Now, depending on any other abilities, that might get multiplied by 1.5, because of the cost to add multiple non-similar abilities to a single item (only increase all but the single most expensive ability).
(*) That's basically the important question here... is a shield bonus worth more than an armor bonus, if it is not attached to a shield? Maybe it is (like Souljourner says above). If you think so, then the cost should probably be 32k (twice as much). I'd let it slip for 16k, tho.
Bye
Thanee
Now, depending on any other abilities, that might get multiplied by 1.5, because of the cost to add multiple non-similar abilities to a single item (only increase all but the single most expensive ability).
(*) That's basically the important question here... is a shield bonus worth more than an armor bonus, if it is not attached to a shield? Maybe it is (like Souljourner says above). If you think so, then the cost should probably be 32k (twice as much). I'd let it slip for 16k, tho.
Bye
Thanee
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0-hr
Starship Cartographer
There is no loophole, the rules as written tell you to modify the price based on usefulness. They couldn't really price out every possible item for you.Piratecat said:
from the SRD
Anyway, saying this is an error in the rules is a mistake - but asking what "judement calls" other DM's would make for this item is a good question.
My opinion would be to make it cost as much as the equivalent buckler, plus some for negating magic missiles, plus a little more for having no weight or skill penalties.
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Storminator
First Post
I would price the +4 Shield bonus as 16K, the stopping magic missiles as 3K, and double the price of the most expensive enchantment.
So as a stand alone item it would cost 35K (16K doubled plus 3K), and as a part of the Robe of the Alienist, the biggest ticket item gets doubled. I assume there's going to be something more expensive that 16K going into that.
PS
So as a stand alone item it would cost 35K (16K doubled plus 3K), and as a part of the Robe of the Alienist, the biggest ticket item gets doubled. I assume there's going to be something more expensive that 16K going into that.
PS
Thanee
First Post
Yeah, that's my line of thinking as well.
Also... a deflection bonus (i.e. ring of protection) is worth more, mostly because it counts against touch attacks. Armor bonus (even force - bracers of armor) and shield bonus only costs half that much.
An item, that would grant a shield bonus for bonus² x 2,000 gp would be useless, since you would rather make it a deflection bonus then for the same cost, or some other obscure bonus for bonus² x 2,500 gp.
That's why I think the fact, that it would be a 'better' shield for a fighter, since it takes up no hand slot, is not relevant, even more so, if you consider the inherent bonus from the shield, which gets lost here (and if you add it on the top end of the cost scale, is worth quite a fortune effectively)!
So, all things considered, I'm extremely sure, that 16k + the 3k add-on is the right cost (remember the multiplier for multiple abilities)!
Bye
Thanee
Also... a deflection bonus (i.e. ring of protection) is worth more, mostly because it counts against touch attacks. Armor bonus (even force - bracers of armor) and shield bonus only costs half that much.
An item, that would grant a shield bonus for bonus² x 2,000 gp would be useless, since you would rather make it a deflection bonus then for the same cost, or some other obscure bonus for bonus² x 2,500 gp.
That's why I think the fact, that it would be a 'better' shield for a fighter, since it takes up no hand slot, is not relevant, even more so, if you consider the inherent bonus from the shield, which gets lost here (and if you add it on the top end of the cost scale, is worth quite a fortune effectively)!
So, all things considered, I'm extremely sure, that 16k + the 3k add-on is the right cost (remember the multiplier for multiple abilities)!
Bye
Thanee
