Magic for sale?

[Silverglass]

I checked the mostly box because I don't allow "Magic Shops" as such, however I do allow the purchase/upgrade of items if there is the correct person available that can be contacted.

So a low-level wizard would sell scrolls, a temple would sell healing potions to the faithful and lesser wondrous items and arms and armour can be commissioned. The big stuff is much more difficult to buy, if not impossible, because a) the high level casters who can make them are very rare and b) they are often too busy to take a month or 2 out of their lives crafting an item for some stranger.

By removing the "you only get xp for killing stuff" rule 3rd Ed gives a slow but steady xp progression for NPCs because everyone faces some sort of challenge every year, whether it is the farmer chasing wolves away from his animals or the wizard seeing off the footpads who try and ambus him one night or the warrior who stands on the pallisade and fights of those orc raiders.

Surviving a year must be a challenge in a D&D world, although it probably is only CR 1/2 or CR 1 (thus limiting general NPC levels to 7th) but that means that NPC casters do have xp to spend and they need money to live. So getting a 5th level caster to enchant a +1 sword doesn't hurt them that much and gives them enough cash to live comfortably for a year and repair that hole in the roof or scribe that divination spell into their spellbook.

Removing the purchase of magic items completely requires a leap of logic that says that NPCs will not do the same things as PCs, which as a generalisation is very wrong as its almost impossible to justify a complete ban.

This approach that allows lesser items to be bought or commissioned is internally consistent with game logic in a normal or high magic world but still retains the challenges involved in gaining powerful items because that 18th level Wizard IS going to lay down some quests and tasks before he crafts you that +5 Holy Ghost Touch Greatsword of Speed that is going to going to interrupt his normal life for weeks on end, meaning that he is interrupting his spell research/unable to fulfill his obligation to accompany that diplomatic mission for the Duke etc etc

 

[Sarellion]

In my game the players can buy magic items up to a certain point.
So there are a lot of expensive standard items you can get. After this you have to find it or perhaps commission it.
My party ordered an artfiact that sealed their rooms in their estate from dimensional travel like teleportation, ethereals and stuff like this.

There is also one smith my players know ofwhere you can get nearly everything. It is a storm giant smith. He can craft the powerful items. The only problem is that he lives for crafting items so he wants to be paid in rare materials.

If you take his jobs you will get a wonderful time in exotic and eh not so healthy places.

 

[jasper]

I voted most of time but I use magic brokers. basically I don't have wand of fireballs but I have access to wizardbay and get back with you next month.

 

[Storm Raven]

It all depends on how you play the game, but for me, buying magic items is ultra-cheesy.

No matter how rare you make magic items, they would still be treated as commodities. The simple fact of economics is that things of value have commercial potential, no matter how special they are. In point of fact, the rarer you make magic items, the more expensive they will be, and thus, the greater the chance that they will be available on the market, since, to use an extreme case, trading a +1 longsword for an entire castle is a pretty good deal most of the time.

Magic items, in a world where magic exists, are commodities. No matter how you look at it. As such, a market of some sort surrounding their sale and purchase will crop up.

 

[Gothmog]

No matter how rare you make magic items, they would still be treated as commodities. The simple fact of economics is that things of value have commercial potential, no matter how special they are. In point of fact, the rarer you make magic items, the more expensive they will be, and thus, the greater the chance that they will be available on the market, since, to use an extreme case, trading a +1 longsword for an entire castle is a pretty good deal most of the time.

Magic items, in a world where magic exists, are commodities. No matter how you look at it. As such, a market of some sort surrounding their sale and purchase will crop up.

Very true- magic items are still commodities in my game, but the circumstances surrouding their changes in ownership are vastly different than in most standard D&D games. While I still use the GP value in the DMG for them, I also use a silver standard for the monetary system, and most people in the world, including the PCs don't have the monetary funds to buy one outright. Only the most wealthy nobles or merchant princes could afford to do that, and in all liklihood, it would ruin them financially. Instead, magic items are given as rewards to loyal followers, for very large purchases (a crystal ball for 3000 acres and a stronghold), or as a way to cement relations between nations. Somone attempting to simply sell a magic item on the market more potent than a 2nd level potion or scroll would be very harshly dealt with by local authorities- that is magic that could potentially be used against the local lord, and wouldn't be tolerated. The few items that are bought and sold are usually on the black market, and the seller would likely get 85-125% of the item's value in those cases, depending on if the item was stolen and how badly the local authorities were after the seller.

Commissioning and creating magic items then becomes a very expensive, and dangerous affair IMC. Most wizards and clerics won't be willing to simply make a magic item for anyone who asks for it. The person would need to be trusted by the character, and would need to demonstrate up front they had the ability to compensate the character for the item. In addition, if the item was something that could potentially be dangerous in the wrong hands(a vorpal sword, wand of fireballs, etc), the local authorities would take a very dim view of the creation of such an item, and could imprison the creator, as well as the buyer for it. In addition, I require crafting rolls for spellcasters when creating an item- one for actual creation of the masterwork item, and creation rolls that get progressively harder for each enchantment laid upon the item. Failure on these rolls can range from very bad to annoyances- from summoning of a demon to strange quirks the item possesses that manifest every time it is used. Finally, I require special material components and magical substances to create an item- some of which can be dangerous to harvest and/or use. If it sounds like a pain to make an item, it is- I want it to be since I enjoy running a low-magic world. However, the items that do exist tend to be fairly potent, and do things beyond adding a bonus to attack, AC, or whatever. Many items also have quirks that cropped up during the creation process- which IME helps make every item unique and memorable to the players. Magic shouldn't be a science that always produces predictable results- by the very nature of what magic is it is unpredictable at times, and has consequences the caster might not forsee.

I know I have a very different view than most people do of magic items in the campaign, and how they should be handled- what matters in the end is that you enjoy what you use, and are consistent with it. I do have a problem with the core 3E tenant that the gear defines the character and his effectiveness, rather than the character's abilities defining the character. I have made some other modifications to compensate for the lessened magic item level (extra feats and a few other things) that reduce the character's reliance on magic items to be effective.

 

[Storm Raven]

Somone attempting to simply sell a magic item on the market more potent than a 2nd level potion or scroll would be very harshly dealt with by local authorities- that is magic that could potentially be used against the local lord, and wouldn't be tolerated.

This assumes something along the lines of a quasi-feudal system in place, which is not necessarily true for all campaigns. It also assumes that the local lord doesn't see the commercial potential of having an active trade in magic items and issue monopolies and licenses to trade in them as a means of filling his own coffers.

 

[Gothmog]

This assumes something along the lines of a quasi-feudal system in place, which is not necessarily true for all campaigns. It also assumes that the local lord doesn't see the commercial potential of having an active trade in magic items and issue monopolies and licenses to trade in them as a means of filling his own coffers.

True, I do use a strongly feudal structure for the framework of my world, but that doesn't mean a different social structure would be any more welcoming of free trade of magic items. The best equivalent in the real world would be sale of military supplies and weapons. Advanced surveilance items (equivalent of ESP/clairaudience/clairvoyance) and weapons (grenade launcher= wand of fireballs) are illegal in the real world because the government (rightly) doesn't want private citizens to have access to items that could potentially compromise the government security and/or cause massive civilian death. While some lords might try to capitalize on selling magic items and weapons, such a lord likely wouldn't be of a good or lawful alignment unless he had a strong set of safeguards built in to insure that the wrong sorts of people (read most adventurers) don't get their hands on them.

 

[Storm Raven]

True, I do use a strongly feudal structure for the framework of my world, but that doesn't mean a different social structure would be any more welcoming of free trade of magic items.

No, but many would. In many parts of the pre-modern era, not only were significant weapons of war avaialable as commercial products, they were commonly available. Think, for example, in the era of wooden ships, how many armed merchantmen plied the seas, loaded to the brim with the then apex of modern military technology of the time: cannon. In the pre-modern era, most armies were comprised heavily of hired mercenaries, who had access to large volumes of military technology.

Just about any mercantile based culture is going to have widespread trade in military technology, because it is difficult to keep such things off the market. Even in non-mercantile societies, trade in military goods is going to crop up unless there is no competition among rivals for power. In the Roman era (a time when you would think private control of military equipment would be limited), many private citizens were able to fund their own private fleets and small armies for various purposes.

The best equivalent in the real world would be sale of military supplies and weapons. Advanced surveilance items (equivalent of ESP/clairaudience/clairvoyance) and weapons (grenade launcher= wand of fireballs) are illegal in the real world because the government (rightly) doesn't want private citizens to have access to items that could potentially compromise the government security and/or cause massive civilian death.

What you say is true in some cases, and not in others. Private citizens in the U.S. are allowed to purchase most forms of high tech surveillance equipment. Private citizens in many parts of the world have easy access to volumes of military technology. In many cases, governments of all stripes (for political reasons) give military equipment to private citizens who form private armies for various purposes.

While some lords might try to capitalize on selling magic items and weapons, such a lord likely wouldn't be of a good or lawful alignment unless he had a strong set of safeguards built in to insure that the wrong sorts of people (read most adventurers) don't get their hands on them.

Selling military equipment, and even military commands was a huge source of revenue for feudal lords. Trade in military goods was widespread at almost every point in our history. Why do you assume that in a fantasy world this would not be so?

 

[Valiantheart]

After about 6th level your character is pretty much defined by his equipment (particularly non-spellcasters) so it's an understandable power gaming instinct, but it is freaking annoying.

...and it is hardwired into the rules. Tons of money for PC's=Tons of Magic Items for PC's=Broken Balance for entire CR system.

And, like Frank siad, no easy solution in sight.

I wonder if tripling the cost of magic item creation would curb it...

 

[mythusmage]

Ordinary Items: Yes

Wonder Items: If you know the right people.

Something basic such as a simple potion or a +1 weapon, as long as you have the money. But for the really good stuff you need to have the right connections. In addition, the prices in the DMG are only guidelines, and oft violated guidelines at that. You want that Sword of the Shivering Dropsy +3? The first thing you need to do is find out if one is even available. Then you get to put in a bid for it, because there will be others looking for one themselves.

Furthermore, when you do have that Sword of the Shivering Dropsy +3 in your sweaty hands you need to check to see that it is the real thing. Magic Item fraud is rife. Only deal with certified auction houses, and remember that even the best make mistakes.

Then you have taxes. Many countries have an annual tax just for owning a wonder item. Others outright ban the ownership of such by private citizens. There's also theft. People will pay good money to obtain a Sword of the Shivering Dropsy +3 on the black market, and they don't care how it's obtained.

Even if you manage to get, and keep, your very own Sword of the Shivering Dropsy +3 there is the matter of maintaining it. Everything degrades over time and through use. Worse yet, stuff degrades even faster through neglect and non-use. Which means you've got to spend money to keep your Sword of the Shivering Dropsy +3 in good shape. If you don't there will come a day when it breaks in combat. An enchantment makes things more durable, it does not make them indestructible.

In short, if you need a new Candle of Continual Flame (the new ones last about 5 years, but there are older models still on the market) you go down to the chandler's shop and see if he has any in. But if you want a Refillable Candle of Continual Flame you have to get it as a wonder item. Besides which, most nations ban the manufacture, purchase, and possession of a Refillable Candle of Continual Flame and its fuel because the fuel is extremely volatile, being known to ignite under direct sunlight or when stored in large quantities. (A 1d6 fireball 5 feet in radius per fluid ounce of Refillable Candle of Continual Flame fuel.So a gallon of the stuff (guaranteed to explode) will produce a 128d6 fireball 640 feet in radius. Since the fuel is the only thing a Refillable Candle Of Continual Flame will work with you can see why the item is banned in most places.)

I hope the above gave you ideas. And, yes, shaking will set off Refillable Candle of Continual Flame fuel. (You'll also note that in my setting permanent items aren't all that permanent. But proper care will make them last longer.)