D&D 5E Magic Initiate - A guide to an underestimated (and cool) feat

[Kinematics]

What if you take Magic Initiate more than once? In two different classes? Do you get both classes? And what if you took Warlock as your MI class? What if you took it in your own class?

You can only take a given feat once, unless it specifies otherwise. The only feat that allows you to take it more than once is Elemental Adept. So the issue of taking Magic Initiate more than once is moot; you can't.

Also, if you take Magic Initiate in your own class, the spell you gain can be cast normally with your own spell slots, instead of just once per day (but you still get the once per day free cast). I don't know how that would interact with CapnZapp's suggested feat, though.

 

[CapnZapp]

Also, if you take Magic Initiate in your own class, the spell you gain can be cast normally with your own spell slots, instead of just once per day (but you still get the once per day free cast).

I don't know what the RAW on this says.

I don't know how that would interact with CapnZapp's suggested feat, though.

You mean if the Bard selects the Bard spell list?

I don't see the uncertainty. The bard gains the 1st and 2nd level slots, and since they're all Bard spells, the character can just add them all together.

I guess some Sorcerers and Warlocks would be interested in taking this feat chiefly to gain CHA+3 extra known spells.

If you think this is too good, simply add that spells known doesn't stack.

You can of course also say you can't become a Magic Adept of your own class at all, just like you can't multiclass into your existing class.

I am not convinced this is a necessary limitation - not yet anyway, but feel free to argue for it.



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[Kinematics]

I don't know what the RAW on this says.

Errata:

Magic Initiate (p. 168). The feat’s limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat


Sage Advice compendium:

Magic Initiate
If you’re a spellcaster, can you pick your own class when you gain the Magic Initiate feat?
- Yes, the feat doesn’t say you can’t. For example, if you’re a wizard and gain the Magic Initiate feat, you can choose wizard and thereby learn two more wizard cantrips and another 1st-level wizard spell.

If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
- Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.


So in other words, you have a once-per-day, slot-free casting of the spell due to the feat itself, and any-times-per-day casting of the spell using spell slots, if the spell is gained for one of your existing classes, subject to the limitations of your spellcasting.

You mean if the Bard selects the Bard spell list?

I don't see the uncertainty. The bard gains the 1st and 2nd level slots, and since they're all Bard spells, the character can just add them all together.

I guess some Sorcerers and Warlocks would be interested in taking this feat chiefly to gain CHA+3 extra known spells.

If you think this is too good, simply add that spells known doesn't stack.

You can of course also say you can't become a Magic Adept of your own class at all, just like you can't multiclass into your existing class.

I am not convinced this is a necessary limitation - not yet anyway, but feel free to argue for it.

I guess the level 12 Bard or Sorcerer who picked their own class for Magic Initiate would effectively have the number of spells of a level 16 Bard or Sorcerer? If that's the case, the number of first and second level slots wouldn't change, and you'd instead get more higher level slots. Or do they get a 'fake' level 4 Bard|Sorcerer worth of spell slots, in addition to their normal ones?

 

[CapnZapp]

Errata:

Sage Advice compendium:

Thx!

I guess the level 12 Bard or Sorcerer who picked their own class for Magic Initiate would effectively have the number of spells of a level 16 Bard or Sorcerer? If that's the case, the number of first and second level slots wouldn't change, and you'd instead get more higher level slots. Or do they get a 'fake' level 4 Bard|Sorcerer worth of spell slots, in addition to their normal ones?

I can't read the multiclassing rules any other way than the latter. Extra low-level slots.

(By the way, the former would be broken beyond all repair.)

 

[Kinematics]

I can't read the multiclassing rules any other way than the latter. Extra low-level slots.

(By the way, the former would be broken beyond all repair.)

Spells known is defined by the individual classes. "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." If you treat the magic initiate class as a separate multiclass, you'd be 12 Bard/4 Bard, and get spells for each of them, respectively.

Spells slots is determined by the sum of all your classes. 12 Bard + 4 Bard = Level 16 character. You'd gain one level 7 spell slot and one level 8 spell slot. If you wanted to treat the level 12 Bard and level 4 Bard spell slots independently, it would not be working as a standard multiclass mechanic.

 

[jaelis]

Spells known is defined by the individual classes. "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." If you treat the magic initiate class as a separate multiclass, you'd be 12 Bard/4 Bard, and get spells for each of them, respectively.

Spells slots is determined by the sum of all your classes. 12 Bard + 4 Bard = Level 16 character. You'd gain one level 7 spell slot and one level 8 spell slot. If you wanted to treat the level 12 Bard and level 4 Bard spell slots independently, it would not be working as a standard multiclass mechanic.

I'm confused what the question is here.

Surely if a level 12 bard takes Magic Initiate and selects the bard class, then she knows a total of 16 bard spells (one of which must be first level), and has slots of 4/3/3/3/2/1 by level, plus she can cast the spell she learned from MI one extra time/day without a slot.

Am I confused about that, or are you considering some other situation?

 

[Kinematics]

I'm confused what the question is here.

Surely if a level 12 bard takes Magic Initiate and selects the bard class, then she knows a total of 16 bard spells (one of which must be first level), and has slots of 4/3/3/3/2/1 by level, plus she can cast the spell she learned from MI one extra time/day without a slot.

Am I confused about that, or are you considering some other situation?

I'm trying to work out how CapnZapp's "Magic Adept" feat would work, since it is written to grant "multiclass" levels to the character. However how he's described it doesn't match with how the multiclass spell casting mechanics work.

It might be confusing because it's mixed up with discussions about the Magic Initiate feat.

 

[jaelis]

Ah thanks, I hadn't paged far enough back in the thread.

In regards to that question, I think I would restrict a Magic Adept feat to applying only to classes in which you have no class levels.

 

[CapnZapp]

In summary, what the feedback from Kinematics is telling me is "since the multiclass rules aren't written with same-class multiclass in mind, there's a bug in the system that makes you gain high level slots instead of the intended low-level slots".

My intention was that multiclassing should work in identical ways regardless of which class you multiclass with.

To keep things simple, I agree with Jaelis.

Anyway, all of this is threatening to overshadow the interesting question: This Magic Adept is much stronger than the playtest feat. But is it overpowered?

I hope the answer is "no, it's simple, it's straightforward, and the built-in auto-scaling makes the feat versatile enough without being broken"

 

[Quartz]

You can only take a given feat once, unless it specifies otherwise.

Not every GM imposes that restriction. Tough and Resilient are prime examples.