D&D 5E Magic Initiate - A guide to an underestimated (and cool) feat

[Li Shenron]

To be fair, to get only a single casting and only of one, fixed, spell, makes these feats a hard sell. I see why they were dropped.

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Yes, in fact I decided not to post my remark but I was going to say that if anything, those feats are on the weak side.

However they do have a sound principle IMO, which is granting a higher level of spells each time. They just need to be balanced to be worth taking, since spending 4 feats for 2 cantrips + 4 known spells with 1 cast per day each is excessively expensive. In some older thread I was suggesting that they could instead grant actual spell slots, and more than 1 known spell.

A quick draft as a starting point:

Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Arcane Initiate, Divine Initiate, or Druidic Initiate
Choose one 2nd-level spell and two 1st-level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 2nd-level spell slot and two 1st level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats (this replaces the 1/day casting granted by the prerequisite feat).

Improved Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Adept
Choose one 3rd-level spell and two 2nd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats.

Superior Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Improved Magic Adept
Choose one 4th-level spell and two 3rd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 4th-level spell slot, one additional 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slot to cast spells learned with these feats.

All feats together grant 12 known spells (2 of which cantrips) and a set of 10 spells slots (4 of 1st, 3 of 2nd, 2 of 3rd, 1 of 4th level), which is reasonable for a 4-feats investment.

On second thoughts, maybe now this is too much... but I think you get my point.

 

[vpuigdoller]

Here they are (note that in the playtest the Magic Initiate feat was split into 3 equivalent feats, each one specific for Wizard/Cleric/Druid spells):

Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Arcane Initiate, Divine Initiate, or Druidic Initiate
Choose one 2nd-level spell from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn that spell and can cast it once per day.

Improved Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Adept
Choose one 3rd-level spell from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn that spell and can cast it once per day.

Superior Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Improved Magic Adept
Choose one 4th-level spell from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn that spell and can cast it once per day.

So apparently they went as far as a "4th tier" feat!

Oh wow! Yah I can see. Thanks for sharing it. Maybe a chain of four feats was overkill but they can still make a second tier slightly based on this that gives two lvl 1 spells and a lvl 2 from the same list as Magic Initiate and having Magic Initiate as requirement. Maybe three spells is OP i will have to play with it.

 

[vpuigdoller]

Yes, in fact I decided not to post my remark but I was going to say that if anything, those feats are on the weak side.

However they do have a sound principle IMO, which is granting a higher level of spells each time. They just need to be balanced to be worth taking, since spending 4 feats for 2 cantrips + 4 known spells with 1 cast per day each is excessively expensive. In some older thread I was suggesting that they could instead grant actual spell slots, and more than 1 known spell.

A quick draft as a starting point:

Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Arcane Initiate, Divine Initiate, or Druidic Initiate
Choose one 2nd-level spell and two 1st-level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 2nd-level spell slot and two 1st level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats (this replaces the 1/day casting granted by the prerequisite feat).

Improved Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Adept
Choose one 3rd-level spell and two 2nd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats.

Superior Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Improved Magic Adept
Choose one 4th-level spell and two 3rd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 4th-level spell slot, one additional 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slot to cast spells learned with these feats.

All feats together grant 12 known spells (2 of which cantrips) and a set of 10 spells slots (4 of 1st, 3 of 2nd, 2 of 3rd, 1 of 4th level), which is reasonable for a 4-feats investment.

On second thoughts, maybe now this is too much... but I think you get my point.

Yah we are thinking along the same lines. I think the problem is the feats are balanced not again other feats but against the fact that you need other feats as requirements. I think this might be slightly op only in the case of the variant human but will have to play test it to check out.

 

[eryndel]

One quick fix I had considered for this chain of feats was to treat them has half feats and give Magic Adept, Improved Magic Adept, and Superior Magic Adept each a +1 to the related casting attribute. Since the casting attribute for Magic Initiate is often secondary to the class in question, it's not often the most optimal choice, but can help to alleviate the MAD that Magic Initiate brings.

 

[CapnZapp]

First off, I think chaining feats as a balance mechanism is a poor idea in general.

This is because a variant human fighter gets four feats already by level 8, while many others only get them by level 16!

That's way too much variation to be useful as a balancing factor: any effect that's good but not too good at level 16 is pretty much a must have at level 8, especially if we're talking "pick any spell" type of benefit. Of course, the straight-forward (but possibly not ideal) solution is simple: instead put a level requirement on the feat. A feat saying "you need to be 12th character level" levels the playing field and avoids both the chaining trouble and making these feats even more useless for multiclassed characters than feats are in general for any multiclass character that does not want to pick classes in chunks of four levels.

Making the feats into half feats might seem a workable solution. But. It presupposes the need for a decent spell save DC - and any decent optimizer will already know that you're much better off skipping any spell requiring a save for, say, an Eldritch Knight, since it frees you from MAD altogether.

Also, to make these feats distinct enough, I think it's much better to focus on giving them real oomph as "magic adepts". Handing out ability increases mean we must balance our feat for characters where the +1 Int or whatever has real value (such as a Wizard with an odd starting score). This dilutes the feat's ability to let you manifest your secondary nature as a "magic adept".

Finally, the goal must be that one such feat should be enough to really matter. That is, after all, the 5E design philosophy, in contrast to how feats worked in 3E. Count this as another strike against the feat chain idea.

 

[CapnZapp]

The next hurdle is that if we allow the player to pick his or her own spell, our feat must be balanced with the very best spells in mind.

This pretty much tanks any interest in taking a flavorful but essentially non-decisive spell.

The Magic Initiate spell works partially because it's only a single casting and only a first level spell. If our Magic Adept feat hands out spells of higher level, the discrepancy between atmospheric character-building choices and "best in class" choices only grow.

The solution to this is to build in enough flexibility into what the feat gives you that you can afford to pick a "sub-optimal" choice now and again.

For instance, if you gain a spell slot but not a single fixed spell, you might want to cast a moody fun spell one day, since you're not beholden to that choice for the rest of your career.

 

[Horwath]

Yes, in fact I decided not to post my remark but I was going to say that if anything, those feats are on the weak side.

However they do have a sound principle IMO, which is granting a higher level of spells each time. They just need to be balanced to be worth taking, since spending 4 feats for 2 cantrips + 4 known spells with 1 cast per day each is excessively expensive. In some older thread I was suggesting that they could instead grant actual spell slots, and more than 1 known spell.

A quick draft as a starting point:

Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Arcane Initiate, Divine Initiate, or Druidic Initiate
Choose one 2nd-level spell and two 1st-level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 2nd-level spell slot and two 1st level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats (this replaces the 1/day casting granted by the prerequisite feat).

Improved Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Adept
Choose one 3rd-level spell and two 2nd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slots to cast spells learned with these feats.

Superior Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Improved Magic Adept
Choose one 4th-level spell and two 3rd or lower level spells from the same spell list you used for the prerequisite feat. You learn those spells and you gain one 4th-level spell slot, one additional 3rd-level spell slot, one additional 2nd-level spell slot and one additional 1st-level spell slot to cast spells learned with these feats.

All feats together grant 12 known spells (2 of which cantrips) and a set of 10 spells slots (4 of 1st, 3 of 2nd, 2 of 3rd, 1 of 4th level), which is reasonable for a 4-feats investment.

On second thoughts, maybe now this is too much... but I think you get my point.

had a similar idea, but maybe that can be all rolled into single feat.
While a feat can be fun, I find it a little weak later on.

I would buff it a bit. Ok, a lot.

3cantrips instead of 2.
1 1st level spell as normal.

at lvl5, 1 2nd level spell,

at lvl11, 1 3rd level spell,

at lvl17, 1 4th level spell,

 

[CapnZapp]

Personally, I think that if we make Magic Initiate our prerequisite, we can afford to make Magic Adept truly character-defining. After all, our character:
- has just spent TWO feats
- has abstained from ability score increases of +4 in total
- is likely 8th level, and indeed is likely 16th level (since after you've reached 20 in your prime stat, giving up further ASI's is much more affordable)

That is why I suggest a Magic Adept feat can and should be generous (I know the rules language needs polish):

Magic Adept
Prereq: Magic Initiate
You count as a multiclass spellcaster for purposes of Spells Known and Prepared and Spell Slots as if you had an additional number of levels in the class you selected for Magic Initiate equal to a third of your character level (rounded down).​

Example: A level 12 Bard selects this feat, having previously taken Magic Initiate for Cleric. Now she instantly gains the spellcasting ability of a 4th level caster (as per the Multiclass Spellcaster table): four level 1 "cleric slots", three level 2 slots, and the capacity to prepare a number of Cleric spells equal to 4+Wis.

She does not gain any extra benefits like cantrips or channel divinity etc. She does not pick a subclass. She does retain her cantrips and 1st level pick from Magic Initiate, of course.

When she reaches 15th level as a single-classed Bard, her Magic Adept feat automatically gives her the following benefits of reaching 5th level as a Cleric: two new 3rd level slots and the ability to prepare one more spell (5+Wis)

This feat is automatically balanced in that characters of high character level gains more than characters of low character level. But already at 6th level it gives you more than the playtest feat ever did.

 

[vpuigdoller]

Personally, I think that if we make Magic Initiate our prerequisite, we can afford to make Magic Adept truly character-defining. After all, our character:
- has just spent TWO feats
- has abstained from ability score increases of +4 in total
- is likely 8th level, and indeed is likely 16th level (since after you've reached 20 in your prime stat, giving up further ASI's is much more affordable)

That is why I suggest a Magic Adept feat can and should be generous (I know the rules language needs polish):

Magic Adept
Prereq: Magic Initiate
You count as a multiclass spellcaster for purposes of Spells Known and Prepared and Spell Slots as if you had an additional number of levels in the class you selected for Magic Initiate equal to a third of your character level (rounded down).​

Example: A level 12 Bard selects this feat, having previously taken Magic Initiate for Cleric. Now she instantly gains the spellcasting ability of a 4th level caster (as per the Multiclass Spellcaster table): four level 1 "cleric slots", three level 2 slots, and the capacity to prepare a number of Cleric spells equal to 4+Wis.

She does not gain any extra benefits like cantrips or channel divinity etc. She does not pick a subclass. She does retain her cantrips and 1st level pick from Magic Initiate, of course.

When she reaches 15th level as a single-classed Bard, her Magic Adept feat automatically gives her the following benefits of reaching 5th level as a Cleric: two new 3rd level slots and the ability to prepare one more spell (5+Wis)

This feat is automatically balanced in that characters of high character level gains more than characters of low character level. But already at 6th level it gives you more than the playtest feat ever did.

Actually this can work!! I like it.

 

[Quartz]

What if you take Magic Initiate more than once? In two different classes? Do you get both classes? And what if you took Warlock as your MI class? What if you took it in your own class?

How about this:

Magic Adept
Prerequisites: Magic Initiate, Proficiency Bonus +3
You gain one extra spellcasting slot for the class you chose for Magic Initiate of each spell level up to and including your Proficiency Bonus. So if you have a Proficiency Bonus of +3 you gain one spell of each level from 1st to 3rd; if you have a Proficiency Bonus of +6 you gain one spell of each level from 1st to 6th. As your Proficiency Bonus increases you gain new slots. These spell slots refresh on a Long Rest. You gain one extra cantrip.

Special: if you choose your own class you gain one extra spell known for each level as well as one extra casting slot.

Special: if you took Magic Initiate more than once you must choose which class Magic Adept affects.

You may take this feat more than once. Each time you take it, you must choose a new class for which you have taken Magic Initiate. If you took Magic Initiate twice in one class - including your own - you may not take this feat more than once for that class.

This then allows:

Master of Magic
Prerequisites: Magic Adept in your own class, Proficiency Bonus +5
Benefit: as Magic Adept but you gain one extra spellcasting slot of each level (1st - 9th) you can cast. You gain one extra cantrip.