D&D 5E Magic Item Creation in 5E

[Li Shenron]

Crafting is part of the game world, and thus needs to be described by the game.

This made me think... is magic item crafting really necessary part of the game world? What if magic item (at least the "big ones") just "happen" or "grow" due to circumstances, events, adventures, being used by/against magical creatures and heroes, or divine intervention? This would mean that they can be in the game without the need to define by the rules how they are made.

 

[Ahnehnois]

This made me think... is magic item crafting really necessary part of the game world? What if magic item (at least the "big ones") just "happen" or "grow" due to circumstances, events, adventures, being used by/against magical creatures and heroes, or divine intervention? This would mean that they can be in the game without the need to define by the rules how they are made.

That could be true in *a* fantasy game.

In D&D, I think it's just been classically assumed that every decent fighter has a swords with an enhancement bonus. Those kinds of generic items don't lend themselves to story-based appearance, and it's hard to imagine D&D without them.

 

[Minigiant]

Magic item creation shouild be in their. MThey have to come form somewhere.

 

[Nebulous]

PCs can create low level potions and such, these rules can probably be in the PHB, as i assume there would be some feats tied with it. Get away from the arbitrary XP cost, that's metagame anyway, make it something more substantial. PCs should never be able to create powerful swords and wondrous items, those are the sole progeny of high level NPCs who devote their lives the craft, not adventurers.

Edit: but i'm also fine with item creation rules fully grounded in the DMG too under DM supervision.

 

[drothgery]

If magic items are as common as 3.xe/4e guidelines or treasure levels in pre-3e published adventures suggest (and a game with rare magic items would not feel like D&D to me, outside of a botique setting like Dark Sun), then PCs should certainly be able to make magic items and there certainly should be reasonable ways to buy and sell them. Or you get a world that makes no sense.

 

[Li Shenron]

That could be true in *a* fantasy game.

In D&D, I think it's just been classically assumed that every decent fighter has a swords with an enhancement bonus. Those kinds of generic items don't lend themselves to story-based appearance, and it's hard to imagine D&D without them.

But has it been also classically assumed that the average PC party can craft their own?

 

[Li Shenron]

Magic item creation shouild be in their. MThey have to come form somewhere.

But do they really have to come from characters? Do they really have to come from player characters?

Maybe if this creates too many issues, it's best to move it to a non-core book, or at least to the DMG. After all, it seems to me that a lot of people in the other thread are advocating that there is no need for PC and NPC to follow the same rules...

 

[CM]

I would certainly like there to be crafting rules, but I would like it to be more of an accomplishment and point of pride than subtracting X GP/XP, waiting an hour, and adding a new item to the character sheet. I would also like to make them more rare than the assumed quantity in 3e and 4e. Eliminating the need for +X weapons and armor would go a long ways toward this.

Some sort of in-game penalty for crafters would be welcome in order to offset some of the materials costs, like the white dragon blood mentioned above. A full year seemed a little harsh though. I could see making a crafter spend a healing surge (or the 5e equivalent) or taking a temporary penalty to Constitution (to represent exhaustion) for a few days after crafting. Limiting crafting to once per full rest or once per week or once per month might help.

In my 4e game I often give out magical components from mystical locations or slain creatures that can be substituted as part of the material cost for magic items. For example, a displacer beast hide could pay for 4,000gp worth of a cloak of displacement. I would hate to see this as a requirement though, because I could easily see a campaign being thrown off-track while the group spends a year questing for item creation materials.

For the non-4e players, item rarity was introduced about the same time as Essentials. Simple items that added +x to a resistance, weapon, armor, resistance or other defense were made common, items with one or two use-activated powers or properties were mostly uncommon, and items with multiple properties and powers were made rare. Item crafting by player characters was limited to common items. As a houserule I allowed characters to "reverse-engineer" found uncommon items and learn them as if they were rituals, allowing them to upgrade the item to a higher-level version or craft a new copy. This worked out pretty well and helps move item crafting a little further away from mundane to magical.

So to sum up, yes there should be magic item crafting. It should be "more magical" without going wild on unbalancing effects. It should be more rare and difficult than the assumption in 3e and 4e but not have onerous requirements or unfair restrictions. Also, I want a pony.

 

[drothgery]

But has it been also classically assumed that the average PC party can craft their own?

It wasn't assumed (at least not pre-3e), but it was a logical consequence of the commonality of magic items; a determined PC certainly ought to be able to effectively create magic items unless the base game is going to make them far more rare than it ever has (outside of Dark Sun).

Maybe you need to be an Artificer to make permanent magic items, but in a world where a lot of magic items did get made, saying that no PCs can make them, ever, doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Greg K]

I have no problem with its inclusion.

I would, however, like it to be both more costly and more time consuming. I also want it to require a permanent "lab"

 

[drothgery]

I have no problem with its inclusion.

I would, however, like it to be both more costly and more time consuming. I also want it to require a permanent "lab"

Hmm. I'd argue that by the book item creation in 4e is too costly in terms of money -- you can't make an item for less than list price, which then requires a bit of hand-waving to figure out how anyone makes money on it. If I were running a 4e game, I'd probably rule that the Enchant Magic Item ritual is a 'field expedient' ritual that's faster and more costly than what artificers normally use for item creation; if you have a staff and full lab, you can create items for substantially less than cost (but it takes a lot more than 1 hour).

 

[Stalker0]

Hmm. I'd argue that by the book item creation in 4e is too costly in terms of money -- you can't make an item for less than list price, which then requires a bit of hand-waving to figure out how anyone makes money on it.

The answer could be....people don't make magic items to make money.

4e's model is fine imo if there was more customization in magic items. For the cost of learning a ritual (which was pretty cheap to begin with) a player can forge the exact magic item they want. That is a pretty nice benefit, even if they get no monetary advantage from it.

 

[tuxgeo]

New Magic Item Creation idea:

In third edition, magic spells had "components": Focus, Material, Somatic, and/or Verbal components, with the list of requirements varying from one magic spell to another.

I think WotC should eventually consider adding a comparable component for fourth edition, namely the "Quest" component, specifically for the "Enchant Magic Item" ritual and for the "Transfer Enchantment" ritual. (It might be argued that the "Disenchant Magic Item" ritual would also need this; but I personally doubt that it would.)

Such quests wouldn't have to be anything as extreme as climbing to the summit of Mt. Everest without magic, or swimming across open ocean from Cuba to Florida; but each magical attribute of a newly-crafted magic item should require the caster to successfully perform a specific quest each time the ritual is used, with the results of each quest having a subtle yet pervasive effect on the caster's soul that would help to flavor the performance of the creation ritual and enable its success.

(Re-enchanting items that are already magic would only need quests performed that are suitable for the changes being made, not for each existing attribute of the item.)

This could replace the XP cost of 3E, and perhaps some of the GP cost of 4E, as a way to prevent PCs from spamming favorite rituals.
(Of course, in order to do that, each specific quest would have to be performed afresh prior to each separate casting of the ritual that required it.)

 

[Greg K]

Hmm. I'd argue that by the book item creation in 4e is too costly in terms of money -- you can't make an item for less than list price,

I should have specified 3e . As for 4e, I don't the costs as I don't play it.

Magic Item ritual is a 'field expedient' ritual that's faster and more costly than what artificers normally use for item creation; if you have a staff and full lab, you can create items for substantially less than cost (but it takes a lot more than 1 hour).

I like the spell slot system for 3e that appeared in the Artificer's Handbook (Mystic Eye Games) and the revised version that the lead developer, Curtis posted on these boards. A link to the revised version can be found here in the third post

 

[drothgery]

The answer could be....people don't make magic items to make money.

Doesn't matter. No one would sell an item for less than production cost + at least some markup unless they were trying to get rid of it or didn't know what it did.

4e's model is fine imo if there was more customization in magic items. For the cost of learning a ritual (which was pretty cheap to begin with) a player can forge the exact magic item they want. That is a pretty nice benefit, even if they get no monetary advantage from it.

Except that while you create magic items of up to your level, you can expect to find magic items of up to your level + 4.

 

[Lanefan]

Goal: to get the PCs to spend their time in the field finding items rather than in the lab building them.

Way to achieve goal: make creation of any item other than a simple potion or scroll take time counted in large numbers of months if not years. Most PCs won't want to take that long of a break, particularly if the rest of the party keeps going and-or the plot runs amok while the party waits. That said, if a PC wants to commission the construction of an item now and come back for it in 6 months or a year or whatever, that's fine.

Goal: to allow some buying-selling-trading of magic items without having Wal-Magics in every town.

Way to achieve goal: assume that most items for sale are coming from other parties just like yours who have - like you - found something they don't need and-or can't use. (though temples and MU guilds might have a few potions to sell.) Barter or sales are usually carried out at guildhouses, meeting halls, pubs, etc., rather than in a streetfront store. What is available to purchase at any given time is almost completely random.

Lanefan

 

[Tallifer]

Goal: to get the PCs to spend their time in the field finding items rather than in the lab building them.

Way to achieve goal: make creation of any item other than a simple potion or scroll take time counted in large numbers of months if not years. Most PCs won't want to take that long of a break, particularly if the rest of the party keeps going and-or the plot runs amok while the party waits. That said, if a PC wants to commission the construction of an item now and come back for it in 6 months or a year or whatever, that's fine.

Goal: to allow some buying-selling-trading of magic items without having Wal-Magics in every town.

Way to achieve goal: assume that most items for sale are coming from other parties just like yours who have - like you - found something they don't need and-or can't use. (though temples and MU guilds might have a few potions to sell.) Barter or sales are usually carried out at guildhouses, meeting halls, pubs, etc., rather than in a streetfront store. What is available to purchase at any given time is almost completely random.

Lanefan

I like these ideas very much.

Permanent magicks should involve elaborate rituals and lengthy research in spooky towers. Magical treasure should be gotten from loot or from other great heroes (inheritance, quests, gifts).

(However I suppose there are some player sand dungeon masters who want Ye Olde Magick Shoppe from Harry Potter. Make that one of the optional modules, I pray.)

 

[FireLance]

This is probably one of the more "out there" ideas, but how about a series of modules around the theme of creating some really powerful magic items? Presumably, there should be some "recommended level" - commensurate to the level of challenge, the power of the item, and the level the PCs ought to be before they attempt to create it.

So, if the paladin really wants his holy avenger, the DM can pull out the module and run the party through the adventure leading to its creation. Same goes if the wizard wants his robe of the archmagi and the bard his ollamh harp.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

I would like to see them moved to the DMG and even then, creating them should be a challenge.

I also would like to see the magic item based on the character's level, so it gets more powerful with him or her as he or she advances.

Potions, scrolls and even wands should be easy to make, granted wands need a special component (like a healing potion needs a strand of hair from a unicorn's mane...willingly)

Arms and Armor should be rare, but also powerful.

I like the idea of damage reduction personally, and having 'damage reduction Magic" be scary again.
I think the special abilities added to weapons should (if they can be made) require a quest or something challenging, like a flaming sword needing to be dipped in a volcano or breathed on by a dragon meanwhile a holy sword would need to be blessed by a celestial being (or something similar depending on their religion/deity)

I think armor should be similar, or crafted on magical forges what are ALWAYS guarded by mean nasties who love to not stay dead.

Rings should be in circulation, but few should know they are magical (detect magic goes out the window for rings) meanwhile staffs should always look cool, and just by looking at them you should know what they do.

Wondrous items should have their wonder back.

Cursed items should be a much larger fear.

Intelligent items should be more common, and thus have draw backs.

All items should be unique (no more "+1 keen longswords"
Try +1 keen longsword that can detect poison 2/day, it is named "Kingsfriend"

Hope this all makes sense

 

[kitsune9]

My beef is with the powergamer who wants to build five Excaliburs in his basement and hand them out to all his friends at the local pub.

I played a crafting wizard in 3.5 and didn't want to craft magic items for the PC's. 1) they thought they were entitled to my efforts at half price even though I was getting hit on the XP, 2) I didn't want my XP being used up to give them crap they wanted, but what I wanted. It adds up when doing wands, staves, and wondrous items.

I got the requests to make Excalibur, but I said, "Screw that." and was wanting to make powerful wands and staves.