D&D 5E Magic Item Creation in 5E

[CleverNickName]

Good idea? Bad idea? How would you like to see it handled?

One of the biggest draws for my players in the 3.x game was how item creation was handled. But for me, the DM, it can be a serious pain in the neck sometimes. I don't have a problem with characters who want to save some coin by brewing their own healing potions instead of buying them from the local temple. My beef is with the powergamer who wants to build five Excaliburs in his basement and hand them out to all his friends at the local pub.

There's nothing wrong with that, I guess...it's just not how I roll. In my opinion, item creation should be restricted to single-use, disposable, relatively weak items. More powerful or permanent magic items should be beautiful and rare.

I can already hear my players' protests....but I would like to see this philosophy carried over into the core of 5E. I would like item creation to be omitted from the core rules altogether...or restricted to potions and scrolls at the very least. It would save DMs like me the trouble of house-ruling them out (and dealing with the arguments at the game table because of it). Don't get me wrong, rules for crafting permanent, multi-use, and more powerful magic items have their place...I believe that place is in a supplemental book, not the Core Rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

In my opinion, item creation should be restricted to single-use, disposable, relatively weak items.

On the other hand, these are potentially more gamebreaking in a subtle way, if used to circumvent all the basic limitations of spellcasters.

Cheap scrolls = forget the risk of not having the right spell because you didn't prepare it

Cheap wands = forget number of spells per day for combat spells

I think it's safest for everybody that item creation rules are not in the PHB. The DMG is already a safe enough place, as long as the game (and adventures) however doesn't assume every DM is going to use these rules.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Crafting is part of the game world, and thus needs to be described by the game. As such, it should be available to the PCs under some circumstances.

That said, in 3e, XP costs were almost universally loathed, the overwhelming majority of character never crafted anything-even wizards who got a feat for free-and those who did craft often gamed the system for power or profit.

So yes, I'd like to see it, but I hope the limitations that are put on it are more appropriate and story-driven (say, some permanent penalty to the creator, who puts some of his essence into the item). I wouldn't mind at all if they left it out of core, put it in a supplement on treasure and items, and really got it right.

 

[DonTadow]

Good idea? Bad idea? How would you like to see it handled?

One of the biggest draws for my players in the 3.x game was how item creation was handled. But for me, the DM, it can be a serious pain in the neck sometimes. I don't have a problem with characters who want to save some coin by brewing their own healing potions instead of buying them from the local temple. My beef is with the powergamer who wants to build five Excaliburs in his basement and hand them out to all his friends at the local pub.

There's nothing wrong with that, I guess...it's just not how I roll. In my opinion, item creation should be restricted to single-use, disposable, relatively weak items. More powerful or permanent magic items should be beautiful and rare.

I can already hear my players' protests....but I would like to see this philosophy carried over into the core of 5E. I would like item creation to be omitted from the core rules altogether...or restricted to potions and scrolls at the very least. It would save DMs like me the trouble of house-ruling them out (and dealing with the arguments at the game table because of it). Don't get me wrong, rules for crafting permanent, multi-use, and more powerful magic items have their place...I believe that place is in a supplemental book, not the Core Rules.

I think the elimination of item creature will vcome with the non-dependance on items in general. Magic items should be fun and magical. The defeat world of dnd, 1st edition, was that magic was not as common as the grocery store. A trinket was important, a super sword was an epic buy or quest.

However, when everything is scaled astronomically, the need tobuild uber magic items goes away.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

Crafting is part of the game world, and thus needs to be described by the game. As such, it should be available to the PCs under some circumstances.

That said, in 3e, XP costs were almost universally loathed, the overwhelming majority of character never crafted anything-even wizards who got a feat for free-and those who did craft often gamed the system for power or profit.

So yes, I'd like to see it, but I hope the limitations that are put on it are more appropriate and story-driven (say, some permanent penalty to the creator, who puts some of his essence into the item). I wouldn't mind at all if they left it out of core, put it in a supplement on treasure and items, and really got it right.

In 1e, items enchanted needed a permanancy spell cast upon it. Doing so generated a 5% change of a permanent loss of 1 point of CON to the caster.

 

[Aramax]

I dont have any problem w/ them including item creation,Ill just ignore it like I always did.

 

[howandwhy99]

I'd like to see this as a variety of options for those who want it in their games.

The catch is, what resources are the PCs spending in order to create these valuable items? Also, how does the world take shape because of access to this production?

Eberron campaigns would want easy magic item creation with increasing difficulty and cost of production for more powerful items and magi-tech machinery. Someone built that train after all, and all those lofting cities.

Greyhawk, a more standard swords & sorcery campaign, could work similarly, but with a far higher rarity for producers of magic items and effects. Perhaps it's a natural rarity in racial populations for who can wield magic? Perhaps training is simply rarer? Maybe trusting in magic by the populace isn't as common and therefore fewer seek out these items. As I recall, most wizards were NPCs and not adventurers. They needed to support themselves some how. Perhaps they didn't share their secrets of creation though? This makes certain texts rarer.

Forgotten Realms is more high fantasy and could be construed as a mix of the previous two. Magic is common enough, but it is still the basis for combat and warfare rather than nation building and everyday life (Halruaa withstanding). I could see magic in FR being more easily learned and by most any with a high enough intelligence, but the acceptance of magic and its mundane uses are still low to middling.

Another question: How recognizable are magic items and effects? Sometimes a magical sword looks like every other sword. It's not recognized as magical until we start using it and something unexpected occurs. If magic is hard to recognize (we might need a Detect Magic spell to do so), then these items could be found in shops at standard equipment prices? Of course the opposite holds true as well, selling an item is more difficult for its true price. This would put a little pawn shop discovery in the game.

For Resources: Time, Money, Tools, Materials, a Safe Environment, Ritual / Spell procedure for creation, are all possible costs to magic item creation. In AD&D M.I.s took literally years to create for the more powerful items. When a laboratory, expensive or quested for materials, and the necessity to learn the proper spell are taken into account then this aspect of play really becomes an adventure in and of itself. Just like spell casting, if the creation of a M.I. were to be disrupted (someone came in and destroyed the lab), then the whole process would need to start over.

If we require individual spells for each particular magic item, then we have a far greater cost (or quest) for those who want to build one. Wizards usually have no limit, so they are not hampered there. Creating custom spells though should be in the game, if we're going to have custom M.I. spells anyways. Those two systems would work together.

All of this ignores the common D&D understanding of ease of access to creating scrolls and potions. Those always appeared differently, simpler, even in 3e. To really remember how M.I. creation was in the game, go back and reread AD&D DMG's "Magical Research" section. It's only a few pages, but a lot of information is there. It doesn't need to be the standard or anything, but it holds a shared commonality for many D&D players. Altering those processes to fit into 5e's mechanics would be interesting. Altering the whole further for multiple options will mean knowing common preferences.

 

[ferratus]

Crafting magical items should involve spell components just like spells do. These spell components should come from various creatures you meet, defeat and use.

For example, a frost themed blade could be required to be forged on the winter solstice, enchanted with an absorption spell, then used to absorb the breath of a white dragon.

This information should be with the item in the DMG, or various parts of monsters should be mentioned as being good for crafting magical items and potions in the monster manual.

This would make it difficult for PC's to just craft any magical item that they wanted, but would still make the crafting of magical items be a possibility for PC's. They would just have to choose the magical items they really wanted and quest for them.

 

[Kaodi]

My beef is with the powergamer who wants to build five Excaliburs in his basement and hand them out to all his friends at the local pub.

I agree. The idea of some super-powerful wizard crafting five epic weapons and then giving them to a group of young, spirited folks so that they may save the world would never, ever happen. Oh... wait a minute...

 

[Kaodi]

Crafting magical items should involve spell components just like spells do. These spell components should come from various creatures you meet, defeat and use.

For example, a frost themed blade could be required to be forged on the winter solstice, enchanted with an absorption spell, then used to absorb the breath of a white dragon.

This information should be with the item in the DMG, or various parts of monsters should be mentioned as being good for crafting magical items and potions in the monster manual.

This would make it difficult for PC's to just craft any magical item that they wanted, but would still make the crafting of magical items be a possibility for PC's. They would just have to choose the magical items they really wanted and quest for them.

I forget which thread I mentioned this in, but it is entirely reasonable to think of item creation in terms of two distinct systems: a system for producing items, and a system for supplying the ingredients. The latter is in fact the more important part in terms of the economy. And the trickier one too, as your suggestion for supplying the frosty oomph illustrates.

 

[Minigiant]

Crafting magical items should involve spell components just like spells do. These spell components should come from various creatures you meet, defeat and use.

For example, a frost themed blade could be required to be forged on the winter solstice, enchanted with an absorption spell, then used to absorb the breath of a white dragon.

This information should be with the item in the DMG, or various parts of monsters should be mentioned as being good for crafting magical items and potions in the monster manual.

This would make it difficult for PC's to just craft any magical item that they wanted, but would still make the crafting of magical items be a possibility for PC's. They would just have to choose the magical items they really wanted and quest for them.

I once had a DM who made all crafted magical items come at a penalty and a material cost instead of an XP cost. My ranger's frost bow had to be coated with white dragon blood. The Coating process have him unremovable cold vulnerability FOR A YEAR . Because of this, PCs and NPCs "almost" never sold their items or had to take long chunks of their adventuring lives off until their crafting injuries wore off. This also had three other side effects: few consumable items were ever crafted, everybody and their mama hunted people who had magic items to bypass crafting injuries, and magic merchants few and far between due to the rarity of magic items and the constant hounding of robbers.


I want to see magical items craftable by PCs but gold and XP costs were lame. And time costs are too limiting. I hope for some other cost for magic though.

 

[RHGreen]

We should have simple rules for crafting - not just magic.

What I would like with magic items is that their level of ability is based on the user rather than the item.

If you are 10th level, your fire sword opperates at that level. So no need to dump that fire sword unless you would rather have a frost sword.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Good idea? Bad idea? How would you like to see it handled?

As far back as 0D&D's 'Eldritch Wizardry,' IIRC, there were rules (of sorts) for item creation. It wouldn't make much sense for there to be magic items and no way to create them.

Well, it could be rationalized, if the setting were the fantasy equivalent of a post-apocalyptic environment, where the creation of items is a lost art. Even then, that would beg the question of why the various caster classes seem able to /do/ what items can (and more), but not make them...

Item creation, mechanically, just puts additional choices in the hands of the players (don't like the items you found in a treasure hoard? Make different ones.). If those choices are balanced, there's no problem. If they're abuseable, there are issues. In AD&D, item creation was more or less by DM fiat, there were guidelines, but the DM could just arbitrarily make it impossible for you to get/do everything you needed to make this or that broken item (or arbitrarily make it easy for you to make a broken item). In 3e, it was pegged to wealth, but effectively introduced a 'bug' that let players sell exp for greater wealth in items. In 4e, the system is balanced enough, but if items can be bought readily, almost pointless to actually bother with. (In campaigns where the market for magic items isn't perfectly fungible, item creation becomes quite valuable).

5e seeks to capture the feel of all editions. It's item creation rules would thus have to have a balanced, systematic player option that resembled the wealth-based aproaches of 3e and 4e, and DM-driven add-ons that allowed the arbitrarily powerful and game breaking items of AD&D.

 

[Number48]

5E should either have definite magic item creation rules, or make it a non-issue by folding the concept into something like class abilities so that, say, a fighter can add an elemental effect to his weapon at level 8, described as crafting it, having the wizard do it, finding it in treasure or buying it. I think I want a system that gives easy limited-use items that are needed every day, and simply no crafting for harder-to-acquire items. There is something to be said for the excitement of not knowing what you're going to be getting. When you can decide all your magic by crafting or buying, then a little bit of wonderment dies.

 

[Tallifer]

The crafting of magical items in Fifth Edition should be tied in somehow with treasure and player rewards. I like the elegant treasure and enchantment system of Fourth Edition, but I can see how it lacks the marvel and strangeness of systems like Powers & Perils. Nonetheless, I want it to be balanced. There must be a real cost to creating powerful permanent magic or to creating convenient scrolls and wands. Or there must be a strict limit on their power.

I do not mind someone making a wand which can cast a magic missile once per encounter. But the magical components for such a wand should be rare and exotic, such that they are essentially treasure and cannot be mass produced.

I do not however ever want to see a character forge the One Ring or Excalibur. Those are artifacts created by the gods or some other powerful source (id est, the dungeon master).

 

[Rune]

I'd like the option to be available for PCs to create magical items, but I think that doing so should come at an extraordinarily high cost--such as sacrificing a life, or selling a soul, or giving away a kingdom.

Of course, magic items would be rare, and would have to be taken out of the math of the core mechanics...

 

[Number48]

I do not however ever want to see a character forge the One Ring or Excalibur. Those are artifacts created by the gods or some other powerful source (id est, the dungeon master).

I have a pseudo-mechanic for that in my game, called legend. Things can acquire power of their own by accumulating history and legend around them. You can't make that. This also means that an item created from legend doesn't have to be masterwork, for instance. I have a second pseudo-mechanic called wild magic. Not as in dangerously explosive, but as in untamed. Sometimes powerful events cause ripples in wild magic creating spontaneous magic items out of nothing, like a star coalescing from gas, or sometimes an item becomes infused over time by sitting at a conflux of ley line-like energies. These items often have strange properties that might not even suit the type of item it is.

 

[dagger]

I would like to see it moved to the DMG and only available if the DM allows it. I also think it should be made much more difficult.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I have a pseudo-mechanic for that in my game, called legend. Things can acquire power of their own by accumulating history and legend around them. You can't make that. This also means that an item created from legend doesn't have to be masterwork, for instance.

I'm rather fond of this kind of concept.

Generally, I like the idea that there should be pretty much just two kinds of magic items: common magic items and unique items with history. The former should be common, cheap, widely sold, easily made, and about as available as things like silver weapons were in 3E. The latter should be extremely rare, not purchasable, very powerful, and filled with a history and story that binds them to the adventure and restricts a character to just using one or two in a whole campaign (though they should be present in just about every campaign). Creating an item of the former should be easy for any skilled craftsman, but creating the latter would require creating a history for the item, and thus would require it to be slowly built up piece by piece as the sum total of a hero's life work. Creating such a weapon should be the effort of a hundred trials and result in an item that practically functions as a part of the person who made it. No magic item creation system built on singular costs would suffice.

 

[jbear]

Optional rule definitely. I have no interest in creafting items as a player or a DM. But as many people do there should exist an option. As i believe this is the guiding philosophy in 5e and the emphasis is the adventure, I don't think Item Creation at the core of the game is appropriate.