Magic item creation question for the DMs

[kreynolds]

Player's need not reply. But by all means, everyone may answer the poll.

This post is a result of another thread I saw earlier today regarding different types of bonuses. Throughout the thread, different opinions were posted regarding the creation of non-core rule magic items by players.

This is just my humble opinion, but it seems that the more I see this topic covered, the more DMs I find seem to actually fear allowing new magic items in their games. Whether this is because said DMs are not fully fluent with the magic item creation rules, or they are simply that strict, I don't know.

To be honest, and I'm not bragging, I have yet to run into a problem with a magic item that I (the DM) created for a game, nor have I encountered any problems with magic items created by players. The reason why is simple. If a player wants to create a magic item, I have no problem whatsoever allowing them to make the attempt. Now whether or not they are successful is a completely different story. I don't enforce a player ending up with a bum item, I just make them spend the time doing the research. But in the end, a magic item is just a magic item. It doesn't have to be a game killer and they aren't always useful in every given situation.

Take this item for example: For a measely 32,000 gp, a player can purchase a magic item that grants a +40 bonus to all Hide checks. Yes, I said a +40 bonus to all Hide checks. Now this item is definately useful, I'll admit. However, if you're stuck in a well lighted room with no furniture, shadows, trap doors, tapestrys, closets, standing suits of armor, etc, I can promise you that you simply are not gonna be able to Hide! So there are times when this item is not all that helpful. It isn't out of the question for someone to make and use this item either.

Now, I will be the first to admit that 32,000gp for a +40 bonus to all Hide checks is pretty cheap, but at the level that you can afford something like this and could actually benefit from it (as opposed to a low level fighter that blew his entire fortune on this item and now has to fight with his bare hands because he's so broke), your number of worn item slots are very precious.

I feel that the cost system for creating magic items is balancing and power controlling all on it's own. Look what happens when you add another power to the above item: +40 to all Move Silently checks added onto this sucker would cost you 64,000 gp, for a grand total of 96,000 gp. That's still not the much money for a high level character, but it's still a big ol' hunk o' change for even a 10th to 13th level character.

Powerful item? Yes. Cheap? Yes. Are you, the DM, completely helpless and utterly at this item's mercy? Hell no. Ever heard of an antimagic or dead magic zone? Ever heard of thievery? Every heard of Mordenkainen's Disjunction? As a DM, you have plenty of options to deal with an item like this. Futhermore, what's keeping you from allowing similar items for your NPCs?

Here is the problem that I see. Items that grant skill bonuses, for example, are pretty damn easy to create, even for a player. However, if a player asks you if they can create the item that I gave as an example, and you say no, what's your reasoning? Surely you aren't going to tell me that you would tell the player something along the lines of "Your magic isn't powerful enough for that." or something like "That kind of magic was lost in the days of High Magic." Saying something along those lines would be completely bogus. After all, how would you explain a vorpal weapon? How would you explain Polymorph Any Object or Polymorph Other, Geas/Quest, Finger of Death, Wish, Miracle, or Implosion? These are all extraordinarly powerful spells.

The simple rule that I (the DM) follow in regards to magic item creation is as follows: The limits of what you can make are your imagination, though your dream coming to reality is subject to my ruling.

Simple rule, no? I'd like your input and opinions, and like I said, those who are only players, need not reply. For now, this is a DM thing. If it progresses far enough, we'll get to the players.

 

[Orco42]

I'd let them make the +40 hide item, and most other within limits(Not bracers of shield for 2000).

I would make the final call on any item of course but I would let a lot of things pass. After all if the PC's can do it so can the NPC's.

 

[kreynolds]

I'd let them make the +40 hide item, and most other within limits(Not bracers of shield for 2000).

What exactly are Bracers of Shield? I assume you just mean bracers with the shield spell in them, but in what way are they crafted that you don't like? Why wouldn't you allow them?

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I'd really like to forbid PCs from making core magical items. What's so creative about making something that already exists? I perfer characters who come to me and say "I want to make this item, but I'm not sure how in the rules it is done." I encourage creativeity and reward it. I hate cookie cutter magical items. Each should be unique.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'm not sure how to answer the poll. I let players create non-core items if they want; that's never been an issue for me. Still, I retain firm control over the creation process: no use-activated bracers of shield or gloves of true striking for 2,000 gp.

Players make non-core items? Yes.
Players control the creation process? No.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm not sure how to answer the poll. I let players create non-core items if they want; that's never been an issue for me. Still, I retain firm control over the creation process: no use-activated bracers of shield or gloves of true striking for 2,000 gp.

Players make non-core items? Yes.
Players control the creation process? No.

What's wrong with Gloves of True Strike for 2,000gp? This is what I'm talkin' about folks. Let's take a look at this item:

Gloves of True Strike, 2,000gp, use activated, unlimited charges, takes a slot.

If you are not hasted, this is what you can do:
Round 1) Activate gloves, take a move or move-equivalent action.
Round 2) Take a full attack action (first attack gets a +20 insight bonus, rest of the attacks are normal), take a 5-foot step
OR
Round 2) Take a single attack with a +20 insight bonus, take a move or move-equivalent action.
Round 3) Repeat

Every other round you give up your attacks to activate the gloves. So what's the problem?

 

[Henrix]

Players make non-core items? Yes.
Players control the creation process? No.

That made me vote "sort of".

If you are not hasted, this is what you can do:

That's not a use activated item. That's a command word activated item (or possibly spell trigger) you're describing.

A use activated item is something like a +1 spiked chain, you use it and it activates.

 

[kreynolds]

That's not a use activated item. That's a command word activated item (or possibly spell trigger) you're describing.

A use activated item is something like a +1 spiked chain, you use it and it activates.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. Here is the cost breakdown of a use-activated item.

spell level x caster level x 2,000gp

True Strike is a 1st level spell, so...

1 x 1 x 2,000gp

Use-activated items are not always weapons. Look it up in the DMG. Activating use-activated items are either a standard action or not an action at all, such as when swinging a sword.

For the record, a command word activated item is...

spell level x caster level x 1,800gp

Also, spell-trigger items can only be used by classes that have the contained spell on their class spell list.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Sorry, but you're mistaken. Here is the cost breakdown of a use-activated item.

Henrix is correct. A use-activated pair of gloves of true striking would give +20 to *all* attack rolls made when worn. There's no need to say a command word - that's "command word activation." "Use activated" means that the item just works without activation.

For the definition, see page 176 of the DMG.

 

[kreynolds]

Henrix is correct. A use-activated pair of gloves of true striking would give +20 to *all* attack rolls made when worn. There's no need to say a command word - that's "command word activation." "Use activated" means that the item just works without activation.

For the definition, see page 176 of the DMG.

OK. This is rediculous so I'll just quote the SRD, which means the same thing as what's in the DMG...

Activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not even an action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves committing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself.

Does it make sense to make these gloves activated as a free action? No. Would you allow it? No. Can you fix it? Yes. If you do fix it, have you bent the rules? No. So, what's the problem?