Magic Item Talk

[KidSnide]

But to sum up, on the whole I want my players to be able to invest in magic item creation, at the very least for simple expendable items like potions and scrolls, and preferably for simple permanent items as well. I don't think any rules for DM item creation are needed, except a paragraph reinforcing "make what sounds cool" and some guidelines for what kinds of items might cause problems for your campaign down the line. I think rules for some PC item creation are very useful, and improve the coherence of the game world.

I agree that it would be useful if PCs could make a subset of the range of magic items available to them. But magic item creation is very much a "module" kind of activity. I wouldn't mind if it was included in a "Book of Magic" product in -- say -- the second year of the product cycle.

One of my problems with 3.5 magic item creation is that the rules reflected some very specific assumptions about what kind of magic items would be available or common (see, e.g., Wands of Cure Light Wounds). I think there should be several "settings on the dial" for PC magic item creation, so different DMs can make different decisions on how difficult or prevalent magic item creation is.

-KS

 

[Ichneumon]

I thought the blog was going to be about intelligent weapons. Which, by the way, I'd be very glad to see in the next DMG. Never felt quite right to have them parked in a Dragon article.

I'd like to see tips on how the campaign world reacts to a PC acquiring a powerful magic item, whether it's found or created. The PC might galvanize followers, gain strange new acquaintances, or provoke enemies. The new owner of a dragonbane sword might find that dragonborn NPCs have become far less friendly. The party could wake up one night to find an army of kobolds ready to quench the threat to their icon.

 

[am181d]

I basically want what I had with 3e (a range of wondrous items plus a toolkit that helps DMs create new items), and they can include some guidance for DMs about naming magical items and attaching lore & plot hooks.

 

[Stormonu]

I agree that it would be useful if PCs could make a subset of the range of magic items available to them. But magic item creation is very much a "module" kind of activity. I wouldn't mind if it was included in a "Book of Magic" product in -- say -- the second year of the product cycle.

-KS

Hmmm... magic item recipes - done along the lines of spellbooks, might be a feasible way to present opportunities to create magic items without it getting out of control, especially if the DM is handing them out as a reward instead of letting them be player selectable. Recipes could be as generic or specific as the DM wants and could even be "charged" - having only so many components to make X copies of an item. Or the component cost could even be seperated from the recipe, if you want to get into that level of detail.

 

[soulcatcher78]

Hmmm... magic item recipes - done along the lines of spellbooks, might be a feasible way to present opportunities to create magic items without it getting out of control, especially if the DM is handing them out as a reward instead of letting them be player selectable. Recipes could be as generic or specific as the DM wants and could even be "charged" - having only so many components to make X copies of an item. Or the component cost could even be seperated from the recipe, if you want to get into that level of detail.

I like the idea of a recipe (scroll/tome/etc) detailing the production of an item being an alternative to actually getting the item. It provides a plausible reason for the PCs gaining the knowledge along with a hook to point them in the right direction. Value set at a percentage of the actual item in case they want to dump it rather than make their own.

Monster hunting has never been more productive!

 

[NewJeffCT]

The character builder certainly makes homebrewing items harder, but you can manage - there are plenty of them in my game, and they're usually centerpieces in the story as well.

Personally, in 4E, I just use inherent bonuses, free universal expertise, and made all magic items auto-level to match whoever wields it.

Having done so, I can now do fun things like drop a story nugget about a Frost Brand that's kept by Frost Giants, long before they're brave enough to do anything about it, and they can come back for it later when they feel they're up to the challenge, and it will still be worthwhile.

Eliminate the need for items, and you can use them better.

I like the inherent bonus idea, but when we started our 4E game, I didn't know the rules all that well, so was clueless about inherent bonuses.

(Also like the magic items that scale up as the player levels - I remember that from the old Midnight 3E setting.)

 

[Raith5]

Before the role and flavour of magic items is worked out, it is necessary to clarify and flesh out how masterwork items work. I often think of +1 or +2 items as being magically forged rather than magic per se. I also like the see potions as being a product of alchemy. At lower and mid levels I would like alchemy and masterwork items to be the norm, rather than full blown magic items

BTW I think the issue of 4th building magic items into the math of system reflects realities of the game (at least my games) long before 4th. I did not have any AD&D 3rd level chacters running around with +3 weapons, nor 13th level characters running around with +1 weapons.

 

[FireLance]

I actually have to agree. In older editions, you didn't have to worry about a magical item breaking game balance, awesome things were just awesome things.

I think you're looking at the issue rather simplistically. A PC with a magic item will be better than a PC without. That's pretty much the whole point of having a magic item.

Nonetheless, this might be okay if:

1. You didn't really care about game balance (a viable option, although not everyone thinks this way); or

2. You adjust the challenges so that they are more or less in line with the PCs' new capabilities (this is something that pre-3e DMs did pretty much automatically, to the point where it almost became second nature. I appreciate 3e and 4e challenge guidelines because they help me narrow the field of monster choices, but when I'm planning an encounter I still run it through my internal challenge level checker first).

However, there is nothing edition-specific about either of the above. You can run a 3e or a 4e campaign without magic items, or with more magic items than "standard", and the game will still work fine if either of the above is true.

Magic items should not be expected, so there is no need to give any specific items out, so the game shouldn't assume them in balance.

IMO, the game still should give guidelines on how to maintain game balance after you add magic items, for those who care about it. It could be something as simple as giving each item a level adjustment, so that a PC with such an item should be treated as one or more levels higher than his actual level, and should be able to take on correspondingly higher-level challenges as a result.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Most of the time, I come down firmly on the side of "old school" in these discussions.

However, IMO clear rules for magic item creation by players were one of the best things about 3E. They solved a problem that had been bugging me for years:

[snip]

I rather like this post. The preponderence of magic items in old school games, coupled with the relative inability to actually make them, always struck me as odd.

"You have to combine the tears of a new mother and a vial of water gathered from a spring in the middle of the Misty Mountains during the full moon, and then stir it with the tailfeather of a phoenix for three days, to make a healing potion."

"Uh, we just found 7 in those bandits' bags."

While 3E's system may have gone too far in the other direction, it was still an improvement to me.

EDIT: Which is to say, I would've XPed your post, but I've handed out too much, too recently.

 

[Lanefan]

I rather like this post. The preponderence of magic items in old school games, coupled with the relative inability to actually make them, always struck me as odd.

Easy to fluff: there's various people out there who can and do make them - Dwarves at their forges, Elves harnessing the magic of nature, Gnomes building the wacko stuff, etc - but those people are not player characters!

Player characters are the end users; the idiots who go out there and break everything these fine craftspeople can build, and then come back for more.

That the PCs can find some magic in dungeons is a boon, as it represents that much less they're asking the crafters to build.

Oh, and to build an item on commission takes a year or more...

Lanefan