Magic Item Talk

[Ratskinner]

I don't think that's going to work. Nor is that probably a good attitude about it. I don't like 4e and I think it opened up a door to game mechanics and styles I'm not fond of in D&D in a similar way to 3e's crafting rules. But I recognize it's a door that 5e can't simply close and go on to succeed. And so I'm prepared to see compromise.

4e? Dude, that's the way magic item creation was before 3e, when it existed at all. (Although I think there may have been some Dragon articles on potions and scrolls....) If 4e does it that way, that would make 3e the aberration. (Note: I never got around to it in 4e, so I don't really know how it was handled there.) From what you're saying, its a door that 3e shut.

Although, my curiosity is piqued. What mechanics are you talking about? In what way does "You have to go on a special quest if you want to get magical ingredients to make that thing." inform the rest of the game? I mean, it seems to me that "Magic Item Creation" is a fairly isolated set of the rules, mechanics-wise. If you drop it out of 3e, the rest of the game plays just fine. There is a narrative/social influence on game play, of course, but you seem to be talking about a mechanical impact? I'd love to hear more of what you have to say on that.

Also, to be clear, I'd fully expect a module in 5e (maybe in the Tome of Magic, if not core) that codified Magic Item Creation. I'd also hope that they would include an extensive "How this could affect your game" section. Certainly it sounds like the Cleric cranking out CLW wands can be an issue for some folks.

 

[billd91]

4e? Dude, that's the way magic item creation was before 3e, when it existed at all. (Although I think there may have been some Dragon articles on potions and scrolls....) If 4e does it that way, that would make 3e the aberration. (Note: I never got around to it in 4e, so I don't really know how it was handled there.) From what you're saying, its a door that 3e shut.

Although, my curiosity is piqued. What mechanics are you talking about? In what way does "You have to go on a special quest if you want to get magical ingredients to make that thing." inform the rest of the game? I mean, it seems to me that "Magic Item Creation" is a fairly isolated set of the rules, mechanics-wise. If you drop it out of 3e, the rest of the game plays just fine. There is a narrative/social influence on game play, of course, but you seem to be talking about a mechanical impact? I'd love to hear more of what you have to say on that.

Also, to be clear, I'd fully expect a module in 5e (maybe in the Tome of Magic, if not core) that codified Magic Item Creation. I'd also hope that they would include an extensive "How this could affect your game" section. Certainly it sounds like the Cleric cranking out CLW wands can be an issue for some folks.

You misunderstand me. When you say that you think the fraction of players who really like the 3e crafting system would cheerfully disappear and get their CharOp jollies elsewhere - that's what I think won't work and is the wrong attitude. 3e opened the door to that style of play and it probably has plenty of adherents. Simply ignoring them won't work.

I feel much the same about plenty of mechanical changes 4e brought to D&D, but I recognize that 4e fans can't be ignored for 5e in an effort to bring the older school feel of the game. So I'm watching for an acceptable compromise.

 

[Kinak]

So I'm watching for an acceptable compromise.

Would having a magical item creation module be an acceptable compromise?

I mean, I don't think "there's a module for that!" is a great approach overall, but magical item creation has always been sort of its own thing. Even in 3e, when it was baked into the core rules, it was ignored or replaced in a lot of games without really impacting the rest of the system.

That said, the only reason I'd be worried about them including 3e/4e style creation in the core rules is because you almost have to assume magical items at that point. Which means I end up having to replace the magical item system (easy) and rework all the math (not as easy).

Cheers!
Kinak