Magic Items - creation prerequisites

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually you are right with your complaints... but it was even worse in 3.x or before...

without magical items your defenses were so much behind that it wasn´t remotely funny. And a fighter even with magic items couldn´t do anything against a wizard at levels 9+...

This is why I only once in 8 years brought a party above level 10, and only because of a running campaign with acces to great magical items (converted from 2nd edition)

Now at least atack and defense scale properly and figthers seem to be able to hold teir own against wizards...

And now back to topic:
When I played ADnD 2nd edition as player, our DM was not so fond of handing out Items we asked for, but chose to give as good enough stuff we had to give to the party member who can use it best. Magic items for sale was very very rare...

When I DMed for 3rd edition (because all my DMs didn´t like 3rd edition at all) I recruited many players who played baldurs gate... and this is why they all wanted to buy magical items...

In 3rd edition there was another problem: NPCs desperately needed the christmas tree to be remotely effective, and it was very hard to tell my players, that with the abundance of magical items that there is no market for it...

4th edition is an imprvement... i have read somewhere, that in the default setting there are no magi item shops per se, but sometimes travelling merchants... which reminds me a lot to my ADnD days...

If you don´t want players to go and buy or go and create stuff that easily, just require some ingridents or requirements... what about a dwarven chainmail needing a finely crafted dwarven chainmail, or some blessed runes by a dwarven priest... it doesn´t have to be trivial or too time consuming (gametime) but it can actually give your characters in game time t get the stuff (i hate charaters which are level 20 before they hit age 20).

The other idea is looking at the magic item treshld and just add the bonuses at appropriate level, so that items of lower level are not needed... or just use lower level monsters... (just the magic item treshold lower)... this will be a good solution for me, because i want leveling up at higher levels more slowly...

sry for the long post, but i really think that if you are posting in a roleplaying forum you should be able to ignore guidelines you don´t like... but never forget, there are many new players who are used to getting magical items they want because they only played computer games before... and it is not bad at all to balance a rulesystem for the average/new player...
designing a game for the hardcore elite will kill the game (sry to jump on the train)

Do i wish some rules were different implemented? yes! did I try t use more realistic houserules in 3.5? Yes! Did they work? Yes! Did they complicate the game sometimes? Yes! Did disallowing players to buy everything they wanted? Yes! Did they like it? Often not! But when they got what they liked, usually percentage based rolls, they were so happy seeing me cursing my dice...

I will do the same for 4th edition!

 

[Piratecat]

Let's not turn this thread into an edition war, please.

 

[Nifft]

Of course the problem here has always been that the quest involved is either small and simple (and barely worth putting in the game) OR large enough that by the end of it you don't want the item anyway.

This is why having a political game going on around the PCs is important. That way the quest itself could be something trivial, but they would be making a significant commitment by undertaking it.

E.g.: "You must kill the Elf ambassador."

Cheers, -- N

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Let's not turn this thread into an edition war, please.

Sorry

short: creating and getting items should be whatever seems fun for your group, with the DM either setting the rules or adopting to player wishes... usually a mix of both

as in all editions

 

[Switchback]

Magic item creation and accessibility seems totally foreign to me playing in a young 4e campaign.

I see character builds commonly recommended and put together based on the assumption that characters just have whatever magic items they want by the end of Heroic Tier to tee off all kinds of powerful combination effects.

But if you are playing in a more traditional campaign where magic items are mostly the domain of what the DM gives for loot or hidden treasure, this can make your character choices very different.

I'm not sure its even possible to play a campaign in this old fashion style anymore. Because even though my group is low level, by reading of the DM guide, it seems parties will quickly fall behind the power curve if every member of a group is not sporting a bag of magic items by level 7 or so. 4e *expects* you have to have these things or else you won't meet the challenge ratings meant for your level.

I would have preferred if they had erred on the opposite side of Monty Haul campaigns.

 

[Wormwood]

I would have preferred if they had erred on the opposite side of Monty Haul campaigns.

"Monty Haul" refers to PCs acquiring scads of *powerful* magic items which make it easy for them to breeze through obstacles.

The 4e parcel/item creation system allows players to tailor their characters to their specific tastes and needs---but it is not "Monty Haul" as these items are always appropriate to the current level of the game.

I understand the desires of some DMs to play low-magic games---but that hasn't been D&D for at least 9 years.

 

[Istar]

Humph! That offends my sensibilities as a long term D&D player. But as a current 4E player, I LIKE IT!

Thanks

Haha.. thats funny

And my sentiments too.

As DM I would rather send him to the far end of the world to recover ye old silver beards long lost mithril toothpick from the bloodthirsty enless mines of Moradin in the depthless deeps of the Farquin stinking festering swamplands of southern outland Fravendork and get the owners blessing and quote the 3 last words he said on his death bed.

 

[Zinovia]

By the book you can use the ritual to enchant any kind of item you like, provided you have the materials for it. That seemed both boring and too easy to me, so I houseruled it.

While there are no masterwork items as they existed in 3.5, I still feel that to be made into a magic item, you need to start with something well made in the first place. Part of the cost of the ritual to create an item is the cost of a "masterwork" item of the appropriate type. No enchanting +4 Wrathblade onto an old rusty sword you found in the goblin lair.

I also felt that being able to make whatever you like whenever you like is a bit much, so I will have "recipes" available for various enchants. Yeah, just like in WoW - but better that than letting them make absolutely any kind of magic item with one all-encompassing ritual. I'll place books of these recipes as treasure. Some items will require rare materials or blessings to create - not just residuum. That provides the opportunity for questing to get the components for a really nice item.

Yes, i am being more restrictive. I am also giving the characters magic that I think they will like and want to use, but not choosing from a wishlist. After 26 years of DM'ing, that just feels wrong to me. If they do come up with a wishlist item, I'll see about allowing them to create it, or have it crafted by someone as a custom item. It just seems too weird that their heart's desire would just *happen* to be found in the next treasure parcel they pick up. Besides, I give them things that perhaps they didn't know they wanted or could use. It's fun trying to figure out what they will like.

 

[NMcCoy]

You can only create magic items of your level or lower, while all of the items you find will be higher than your level. In general, crafting magic items will be used for filling in gaps rather than making awesome stuff. This creates an opportunity: If you know someone's been wanting a flaming sword, let them find a Fire Ruby or some such in a treasure parcel that'll let them craft a fire-related item of [party level +2] for the cost of creating a [party level] item.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Good ideas.

@ Giving out items which players don´t know they need:
Having magical items in the PHB is both a curse and a blessing:

Players know what (standard) items are out. But at least they keep their eyes out of my DMG (and also out of my MM). But the really shiny things: Artifacts, custom made and cursed items don´t appear there.

I don´t remembder if cursed items and custom made items appear in the DMG, but artifacts do...

I hope DMG2 has some good things to surprise my players