D&D 1E Magic items in AD&D, making them and getting them.

[Zardnaar]

For basic items such as +1 swords and potions of healing I was fairly lenient. A +1 Sword basically required something like Damascus Steel, a healing potion maybe holy water + a good berry something like that. I think one of the players option books had the rules we ended up using. Magic item creation was rare though.

A Flametongue would be harder obviously along with a +5 weapon but something like a holy avenger yeah you are going to jump through hoops for that one.

 

[Insanefury]

I've been getting back into 2e after years of not playing (and after finding a bunch of books in storage) and just stumbled across this thread. There's something that I'd like to point out that should alleviate some of the problem with creating permanent magic items in AD&D 2nd Edition.

Here's how the Permanency spell reads in the PHB:

"This spell affects the duration of certain other spells, making the duration permanent. The personal spells upon which a permanency is known to be effective are as follows:

comprehend languages
detect evil
detect invisibility
detect magic
infravision
protection from cantrips
protection from evil
protection from normal missiles
reed magic
tongues
unseen servant

The wizard casts the desired spell and then follows with the permanency spell. Each permanency spell lowers the wizard's Constitution by 1 point. The wizard cannot cast these spells upon other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a wizard of greater level than the spellcaster was when he cast the spell.

In addition to personal use, the permanency spell can be used to make the following object/creature or area-effect spells permanent:

enlarge
fear
gust of wind
invisibility
magic mouth
prismatic sphere
stinking cloud
wall of fire
wall of force
web

Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas as only and rendered permanent:

alarm
audible glamour
dancing lights
solid fog
wall of fire
distant distortion
teleport

These applications to other spells allow it to be cast simultaneously with any of the Iatter when no living creature is the target, but the entire spell complex then can be dispelled normally, and thus negated.

The permanency spell is also used in the fabrication of magical items (see the 6th level enchant an item spell). At the DM's option, permanency might become unsalable or fail after a long period, at least 1,000 years. Unstable effects might operate intermittently or fail altogether. The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent. Researching this possible application of a spell costs as much time and money as independently researching the selected spell. If the DM has already determined that the application is not possible, the research automatically fails. Note that the wizard never learns what is possible, except by the success or failure of his research."

From enchant an item spell: "No magic placed on an item is permanent unless a permanency spell is used as a finishing touch. This always runs a 5% risk of draining 1 point of Constitution from the wizard casting the spell."

I'll admit that, at times, the books written back then weren't very clear and I think this is one of those instances. If you look at how the description is broken up, it's in parts; making personal spells permanent (i.e., spells cast on the caster themselves), making spells cast on objects/creatures or area-effect spells permanent, and creating permanent magic items.

When permanency is cast on the caster will the caster receive a permanent -1 to CON. Additionally, when permanency is used to create permanent magic items, there is a 5% chance the caster loses 1 CON. When permanency is cast on creatures or areas, there is no CON penalty.

Thanks to Legatus_Legionis for the correction.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm against magic items shops as such but occasionally something might turn up for auction.

 

[Legatus Legionis]

.

 

[Insanefury]

Reading that spell it states:

So, in making a magical item, there is a 5% chance of losing 1 CON.

If you are casting a personal spell on yourself and wants it to be permanent, you LOSE 1 CON per spell.

That is how I read it.

Thanks for that. I'll edit my post for accuracy.

 

[Yardiff]

The way Jim Ward tells it EGG was kind of a Monty Hall DM because he was playtesting magic items, which makes since. Need to get the items into players hands to be used.

When I played in 1e our DM make his own stuff so we didn't see modules. Magic items weren't rare but they weren't really common either especially powerful items. To me this make magic item seem more special.

 

[Bohandas]

I don't have much experience with actual tabletop play, but I do know that the old SSI Krynn games give you a bunch of +3 weapons as well as a +5 dragonlance during the low level first installment

 

[Nil-Ith]

I apologize for any spoilers if any of you are currently running through the mod or plan to run it for your 1e campaign, but my 1e group recently completed the Greyhawk Ruins module. It took our high level group a few years to actually complete the mod due to scheduling and life stuff (as D&D usually goes) But I was curious to see if anyone else discovered the secret of the bottom of the Tower of Power and used the "facilities" to create magic items in their campaigns before? and if so has anyone attempted to create intelligent magic items?

I ask because there really isn't a whole lot of information out there regarding its use and the module implies that most groups have a hell of a time even discovering how to do things within Zagyg's old wizard towers. My hope is that maybe someone on here is familiar with it and might have some helpful information

 

[Lanefan]

Were those things more common, did I just play with particularly hardcore/tough DM's and gaming groups?

On first glance and based on my own experience I think your lot were pretty hardcore.

What was everyone elses experience about magic item creation and obtaining in AD&D?

Creation: first off, if cast specifically for item creation I dropped the Constitution cost for casting Permanency; it only costs a Con point if you cast it on a spell effect and, depending what that spell effect is, that Con point may or may not be long-term recoverable. Basic stuff like scrolls, potions, holy symbols etc. doesn't need Permanency at all.

Second, I have an unofficial non-adventuring class of Artificer whose hobby/profession is creation of magic items. Generally this is an NPC class; were a PC to show interest that'd be fine too, but taking up the class would end said PC's field-adventuring career. If a PC wants to specifically commissioin one of these people to make something it can be done, with payment up front and a wait time of several months to a year (which in adventuring terms is ages!) for the item to be completed.

Edit to add: I'm also quite happy to keep PCs away from creating their own items (other than potions and scrolls at higher levels) for a few reasons: it's boring to DM, for one thing; and if PCs aren't doing it then I don't have to worry about working out all the specifics involved in the making of each item.

Finding items: yes, the original 1e modules have a lot of magic in them to be found, and players/PCs eventually become rather adept at finding it. This is fine with me; also keep in mind 1e as a system is also pretty good at destroying magic items (provided the DM is harsh enough to enforce the RAW around this), leading to more of an easy come, easy go mentality which I much prefer.

In town it's also possible to buy whatever random items that other people might be trying to sell; but note the use of the word "random" in there. Sometimes you get lucky and find someone selling exactly what you need, far more often not.

 

[Shiroiken]

Magic item creation in 1E was far more effort than the reward. I've had players perform it, but it was seldom done unless a PC had a specific desire for a magic item they could not yet find (even with advice from sages on where one might be found). None of these items were common in the slightest, so there's a logical disconnect between existing items and the difficulty in making them (unless your setting had a lost "golden age" where magic item creation was easier).

As for finding magic items, I've found it's very DM dependent. I knew one DM who regularly removed half of all magic items rolled or existing in a module. I knew another who tossed out magic items like candy. I leaned a bit more towards giving out more than the charts would indicate, but largely because I wanted to give out XP without a lot o gold (my players seldom sold a magic item, unless they literally had no use for it).