Magic Items: When do they become "Artifacts"

[Murrdox]

Ugh. Magic item cost calculation formulas.... so many different versions... brain... hurts...

In all seriousness... I'm thinking more along the lines of how the item was made qualifies it as an artifact. I'm not sure what the DMG or the Epic Guide say about this. Somehow I think especially considering what epic characters are capable of, cost should be less important.

If some ridiculously high epic level character uses perfectly normal rules to forge a +20 or something epic weapon.... something like a +8 Vorpal Dancing Shocking, Flaming, and Icy Burst Demon Bane Longsword of Brilliant Energy.

Now, when he makes this thing, as a DM, I don't think I'd grant it instant artifact status. Because destroying artifacts is listed in various places as something that pisses off Gods... I'd say some sort of divine intervention is required.

If a God INSTRUCTED the character to forge the weapon... or kept him safe from harm while the weapon was being enchanted, or the character then USED the weapon to smite an enemy of a God, I could see it being elevated to an artifact level... either that or as was detailed before... something really WEIRD happening, like wounding a God or something.

This is just all DMs perogative, of course.

I mean, a god could make a silly +1 Dagger an artifact if he wanted to.

 

[kreynolds]

Here's another wierd artifact that doesn't exactly qualify as an artifact, at least not by price. It certainly does qualify as an artifact on the basis of "creativity", if you will.

It's Liquid Power and it's from the Book of Eldritch Might. Drinking it gives you 6d6 x 100 experience points that can only be used to create magic items or cast spells that require an XP component. It can't be used for anything else. Now, normally, I would think the price would simply be five times the cost of the XP contained within. That would be like a power component or something. So, a flask of liquid power that gave you the maximum amount of 3,600 XP would cost 18,000 gp. Heck, lets even increase that to twenty times the cost of the XP contained within. That would come to about 72,000 gp. I certainly think that 72K to spare you from having to spend your own XP is perfectly fair.

Now, neither of those prices qualify liquid power as an artifact. It simply is an artifact "just because", or if you prefer, to add a little "creative" twist.

 

[Magic Rub]

Here's another wierd artifact that doesn't exactly qualify as an artifact, at least not by price. It certainly does qualify as an artifact on the basis of "creativity", if you will.

It's Liquid Power and it's from the Book of Eldritch Might. Drinking it gives you 6d6 x 100 experience points that can only be used to create magic items or cast spells that require an XP component. It can't be used for anything else. Now, normally, I would think the price would simply be five times the cost of the XP contained within. That would be like a power component or something. So, a flask of liquid power that gave you the maximum amount of 3,600 XP would cost 18,000 gp. Heck, lets even increase that to twenty times the cost of the XP contained within. That would come to about 72,000 gp. I certainly think that 72K to spare you from having to spend your own XP is perfectly fair.

Now, neither of those prices qualify liquid power as an artifact. It simply is an artifact "just because", or if you prefer, to add a little "creative" twist.

If it wasn't an Artifact you might find yourself with one hell of a headache as a DM. If your PC's were to come into a pile of gold & time, it would be a limitless (or at least Gold dependant) supply of XP for making magic items, & casting spells (after the first potion was made). Make the first with your own xp, then use the first to make (XX) more. The level of abuse could/would be sick.

PC: "I drink these 28 viles of Liquid Power I've just finished making."
DM: "ya... uh-huh... *gulp* roll 168d6 x 100 " (Thinks oh dear gawd no!)

...1 hour later...

PC: "OK got it! That's 50,400xp I can use for spells & items."
DM: "& what do you do with it?"
PC: "I cast wish 7 times, I start by giving my Int a +5"
DM: "What do you do with the other 2 wishes & the remaining 15400xp?"
PC: "I use 2 more wishes to wish for 30,000gp. With that gold & the remainder of the XP I make more batches of Liquid Power."

 

[kreynolds]

If it wasn't an Artifact you might find yourself with one hell of a headache as a DM.

As a DM, _very_ few things give me a headache. But, maybe I'm just lucky.

Make the first with your own xp, then use the first to make (XX) more.

Easy as pie. Spending 20 XP and 100 GP nets you a vial of liquid power with 20 XP in it. No wonder you're freaked about this.

The level of abuse could/would be sick.

PC: "I drink these 28 viles of Liquid Power I've just finished making."

Now, see, a wise DM would rule that they don't stack.

 

[LordAO]

This is one of those things I dislike about D&D. In my opinion ALL magic items are artifacts. But since D&D makes even powerful items commonplace, the only thing they can do to have special items exist is to make a seperate category called "artifacts".

Just look at Lord of the Rings, or many other fantasy novels. Magical weapons and other items are highly cherished and appreciated. In D&D they seem grow on trees. When Frodo was given Sting, he didn't just say "Bleh, another +2 orc alerting sword, well maybe I'll get 2000 gold pices for it". In D&D this is commonplace. In many novels, characters have a signature weapon like Narsil or Holy Avenger or Frostbrand, yet in D&D characters don't tend to keep any magical item for long, unless of course it's an artifact, in which case it's "Special". And based upon the whole escalation of levels, DR and CRs, it makes sense. There comes a point when that old +2 sword just won't cut it anymore, no matter how much sentiment it has for the character.

In the group I play in I've actually had characters get infuriated because the village they were in had no magical items for sale. This is the type of gamer that D&D magical items creates. An then there's the Epic Level Handbook. I mean seriously people, +15 swords?! Just how obscene does something have to become before it's special? In my opinion, all magical items should be special and prized. But maybe that's just me.

 

[LokiDR]

I almost surprized there isn't a "functions in an antimagic field" enhancement for weapons and armor in the ELH.

Wizard: You wish to commision an item?
Adventurer: yes
Wizard: What is it you seek?
Adventurer: I'd like a +3 keen vorporal longsword. Oh, and make that immune to Anti-magic Field.
Wizard: Would you like fries with that?

 

[Grazzt]

This is one of those things I dislike about D&D. In my opinion ALL magic items are artifacts. But since D&D makes even powerful items commonplace, the only thing they can do to have special items exist is to make a seperate category called "artifacts".

Just look at Lord of the Rings, or many other fantasy novels. Magical weapons and other items are highly cherished and appreciated. In D&D they seem grow on trees. When Frodo was given Sting, he didn't just say "Bleh, another +2 orc alerting sword, well maybe I'll get 2000 gold pices for it". In D&D this is commonplace. In many novels, characters have a signature weapon like Narsil or Holy Avenger or Frostbrand, yet in D&D characters don't tend to keep any magical item for long, unless of course it's an artifact, in which case it's "Special". And based upon the whole escalation of levels, DR and CRs, it makes sense. There comes a point when that old +2 sword just won't cut it anymore, no matter how much sentiment it has for the character.

In the group I play in I've actually had characters get infuriated because the village they were in had no magical items for sale. This is the type of gamer that D&D magical items creates. An then there's the Epic Level Handbook. I mean seriously people, +15 swords?! Just how obscene does something have to become before it's special? In my opinion, all magical items should be special and prized. But maybe that's just me.

Yep- many good points made and I can relate to most everything ya said. The one thing I havent had to worry about is my players becoming frustrated with villages not selling magic items. All of my players were born and raised on 1e when magic was not as commonplace as it is now. Plus, we all seem to be in agreement that walking into your local "wal-mart" to stock up on magic swords or whatever is just not the style of game we wanna play.

Magic items (and magic in general is scarce) in my campaign (sort of a dark fantasy cross between Moorcock, Norton, and Tanith Lee). My players have no problems with it and cherish finding magic items (when they actually do). Magic items they find are all special in their own way. They never find and identify a "+2 longsword". The longsword (while it may be +2) is perhaps the ancient sword of an order of knights or a sword that was used to slay the last invader during some great war. Something with history that makes it special. (And monsters' CRs are scaled up a bit to adjust for the lack of magic, so its all good.)

Hell, even potions and scrolls are hard to come by (campaign history....long story...wont go into it here). Why dont they just create their own items using the various Craft XXX feats? Well, if those feats were available they might be able to. The knowledge of creating magic items was lost in the past and has yet to be rediscovered. (It can be and perhaps will be in the future, but as of now, the knowledge of forging even the simplest magic potion) has been forgotten (again ties in with campaign history).

Sorry- ran off on a tangent there for a bit. But, to each his own. I think magic items should be scarce, rare, and special...otherwise its just takes something from the game (at least for us...but then again, to each his own, like I said).

 

[LordAO]

Good points Grazzt. One thing I like to do with magical items is require exotic components. For example, to make a staff of fire, perhaps you need the tooth of a red dragon, wood from a fire tree, etc. This makes item creation fun and interesting because then the players need to quest for special items, perform special rituals, etc to make powerful items. Of course I also reward their extra effort, I usually deduct the exp cost of the item for all their hard work, and will often allow special properties that are cool and unique. Perhaps the staff of fire can be recharged by placing it in fire of some sort, for example. It seems a whole lot cooler than the player simply popping out yet another fire staff, deducting a few thousand gold, some exp, and a few weeks of time (cha ching). It makes magical items more personable and sentimental to the caster, and less of a commodity.

I also allow the creation of artifacts. Though it is quite difficult, the reawrds are well worth the effort. I think it works out really well.

 

[Geoff Watson]

"Artifacts" are items that cannot be created using the Item Creation rules.

Geoff.

 

[kreynolds]

"Artifacts" are items that cannot be created using the Item Creation rules.

Pants cannot be created using the Item Creation rules either. Magical pants, yes, but not plain old pants.