Magic missile too strong?

[RigaMortus2]

If I may, consider a Wu Jen / Force Missile Mage with a dip into (if you feel you can afford to loose one more caster level) of Argent Savant.

With Wu Jen, pick up Spell Secrets: Still-spell MM, Silent MM.

I don't know, the ability to cast MM at +1 caster level (from being a Domain Wizard) is very very tempting. Wouldn't that come out to 8 magic missiles? Normal max of 5, +1 from Domain Wizard, +2 from Force Mage.

 

[Drowbane]

Your not taking quicken eldritch blast, you are taking quick spell-like ability, which applies to ALL of you spell-like abilities one, if you take it twice, it applies twice, to all of them, of which, invocations and EB are both spell-like abilities. So for one feat, you are basically getting sudden meta-magic twice.

Anyway, no, I admit I haven't played a Warlock, but I don't have to play every class to make comments on them, and niether do you.

IMO, any class that can use an ability unlimited nubmer of times a day is just wrong. Any class that can use that same ability unlimited times a day while appling effects directly to the ability, making it more powerful, even worse.

I haven't mad a warlock to try and break it, but with the unlimited ability of the invocations and the EB and 1,000s of feats to choose from, I'm sure if I put in five man hours I could find a way to break it. I'm sure others already have.

Anyway, at fist glance, I think a sorcerer is worse, but that is just me and the fact that I have played and broken a sorcerer and I haven't tried a warlock.

As others have said, Meta-spell-like Feats (at least in 3.5) require you to choose one of your SLAs...

I invite you to the Dark Side, convince a DM to let ya try a Warlock, you might enjoy it. Any class can be broken if you go out of your way to break it (well most classes), that doesn't mean the class itself is broken (that make any sense?).

 

[Drowbane]

I don't know, the ability to cast MM at +1 caster level (from being a Domain Wizard) is very very tempting. Wouldn't that come out to 8 magic missiles? Normal max of 5, +1 from Domain Wizard, +2 from Force Mage.

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the Domain Wizard's +1 CL lets you break the 5 (7, sir, 7) Missile limit.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the Domain Wizard's +1 CL lets you break the 5 (7, sir, 7) Missile limit.

Ahhh, you are right. It does allow them to gain the additional missile 1 level earlier than normal, but doesn't allow them to exceed the normal limit on the amount of missiles...

 

[Drowbane]

Ahhh, you are right. It does allow them to gain the additional missile 1 level earlier than normal, but doesn't allow them to exceed the normal limit on the amount of missiles...

So, yeah... check out the Wu Jen. I haven't actually done the build yet, but I think it could be spiffy.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Okay seriously, I know they are written somewhere, but I can't find information on descriptors. I wanted to re-read the descriptors for Force and the only place I could find it was in Dragon Magazine #323.

Where are the different energy descriptors listed please?

I know what they are, but I remember reading a more detailed description somewhere else.

 

[DM-Rocco]

No, it doesn't.

From the SRD
QUICKEN SPELL-LIKE ABILITY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Spell-like ability at caster level 10th or higher.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s spell-like abilities, subject to the restrictions described below. The creature can use that ability as a quickened spell-like ability three times per day (or less, if the ability is normally usable only once or twice per day).

As you see from the bolded text above, this feat specifically requires you to apply this to a specific SLA.

Well, then you got me on that, I was using information from The Book of Vile Darkness, which is how I stated it.

Your version is actually better, you get more uses out of it for your EB in this sitiation.

 

[DM-Rocco]

As others have said, Meta-spell-like Feats (at least in 3.5) require you to choose one of your SLAs...

I invite you to the Dark Side, convince a DM to let ya try a Warlock, you might enjoy it. Any class can be broken if you go out of your way to break it (well most classes), that doesn't mean the class itself is broken (that make any sense?).

LMAO, yes, it makes sense

I actually do have a DM right now who is starting a new campaign, but I am going to an Artificer cause I haven't played one of those yet. Actually a Aritifcer//Wizard cause it is a gestalt campaign.

At first glance the Warlock looks boring to me cause you basically just blast stuff with the ocasional invocation or added effect to your EB and I don't like hack and slash classes like that.

If you like tham and think they are not as strong as I think they are, that's fine, and I have to conceed to your knowledge cause I haven't played one

 

[Staffan]

Okay seriously, I know they are written somewhere, but I can't find information on descriptors. I wanted to re-read the descriptors for Force and the only place I could find it was in Dragon Magazine #323.

Where are the different energy descriptors listed please?

I know what they are, but I remember reading a more detailed description somewhere else.

The SRD has a list of descriptors (not just energy) where it's talking about how spells are described. It says:
The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water.
It then goes on to say that most of these descriptors don't have any effect by themselves, they're just a convenient way of tagging stuff for how it interacts with other stuff.

The rule about Force affecting incorporeal creatures is in the rules about the incorporeal subtype. It is also in the glossary: force damage: A special type of damage dealt by force effects, such as a magic missile spell. A force effect can strike incorporeal creatures without the normal miss chance associated with incorporeality.

I don't think most descriptors are in the glossary, though.

 

[DM-Rocco]

So, yeah... check out the Wu Jen. I haven't actually done the build yet, but I think it could be spiffy.

Okay, if you really really want to break magic missile, here is what you do:
5 Wizard (evocker domain wizard) with spontanious Domain casting if you can talk a DM into it
5 War Mage (the Prc class from Age of Mortals, not the whimpy one from CA) basically gives you +3 per die roll of damage
5 Force mage (to gain two more missiles)
1 Argent Savant (another +1 to die damage)

Now you have 7 missiles for 7d4+7+28

However, note, this is not an example of the spell being broken, it is an example of the choice of feats and classes that break the spell.

Dump the last 6 classes and your now doing 10d6+30 on a fire ball, 4d6+12 on scourcing ray or, if 20th level with 5 levels of war mage and they fail there saving throw 40d6+120.

The spells isn't broken, it is the way you use it and the classes and feats you use it with.