Magic missile too strong?

[DM-Rocco]

The SRD has a list of descriptors (not just energy) where it's talking about how spells are described. It says:
The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water.
It then goes on to say that most of these descriptors don't have any effect by themselves, they're just a convenient way of tagging stuff for how it interacts with other stuff.

The rule about Force affecting incorporeal creatures is in the rules about the incorporeal subtype. It is also in the glossary: force damage: A special type of damage dealt by force effects, such as a magic missile spell. A force effect can strike incorporeal creatures without the normal miss chance associated with incorporeality.

I don't think most descriptors are in the glossary, though.

I found those in the book, but there was a list that stated the desciptors and what they did, even though the book says the descriptors don't have any effect by themselves. Example, the force effect ignore hardness, so does acid if I recall correctly.

I just can't recall where I saw that.

 

[Staffan]

No such list that I can recall. You might be thinking about the rules for breaking stuff:

Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

 

[DM-Rocco]

No such list that I can recall. You might be thinking about the rules for breaking stuff:

Hmm, maybe that is where I got it from. What book and page was that on?

And where does it say that force effects ignore DR and hardness, other than dragon magazine #323

 

[Staffan]

Hmm, maybe that is where I got it from. What book and page was that on?

I got it from the SRD, and I'm too lazy to get my PHB to check. It should be in the "various stuff" chapter though, the one with encumbrance, illumination, and stuff like that.

And where does it say that force effects ignore DR and hardness, other than dragon magazine #323

It doesn't. Especially not hardness. There may be specific spells that say it ignores hardness (like all the psionic energy powers say that the sonic variant ignores hardness, which is not true for sonics in general), but there's no general force anti-hardness rule I know of.

 

[shilsen]

Hmm, maybe that is where I got it from. What book and page was that on?

3.5 PHB, pg.165.

And where does it say that force effects ignore DR and hardness, other than dragon magazine #323

They don't ignore hardness. That was clarified in the FAQ recently too, IIRC. And spell effects of any kind generally ignore DR anyway.

 

[irdeggman]

They don't ignore hardness. That was clarified in the FAQ recently too, IIRC. And spell effects of any kind generally ignore DR anyway.

Correct, from the SRD on DR

DAMAGE REDUCTION
Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.
Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Sometimes damage reduction is instant healing. Sometimes damage reduction represents the creature’s tough hide or body,. In either case, characters can see that conventional attacks don’t work.

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

 

[Question]

Force missle mage fails for not providing full spellcasting progression though.

A wizard would need to be level 14 to fire 7 missles, doing 7d4+7 damage. There are more efficient ways to do damage by that point......

 

[DM-Rocco]

3.5 PHB, pg.165.



They don't ignore hardness. That was clarified in the FAQ recently too, IIRC. And spell effects of any kind generally ignore DR anyway.

Hmm, Dragon Magazine has a list of things for the force descriptor but I just found the part in the FAQ, so I guess that is the one to use.

Now, half of the MM debate is put to rest, cause part of the deal was that they thought all damage applied to an object, disregarding harness.

 

[Canaan]

But a force missle mage (dragon mag)/argent hand (Complete Arcane)/force weaver (path of magic) would get 7 X 1d4+6 with his magic missile for a minimum of 49 and a max of 70 without a feat. Now maximize and empower that bad boy and you do 105 points of damage with a lil' ole magic missile. And it bypasses shield. That totally rocks! Of course, you're like 23rd level, but whatev.

 

[Question]

Age of mortals? Whats that?