Magic missile too strong?

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Sorceror has a limited number of spells. For playability sake the Sorceror must be able to cherry-pick highly reliable above average power spells, and ram them down the enemy's throat over and over again.

To suggest that MM is overpowered is tantamount to declaring the Sorceror class overpowered, at least for the lower levels. While that may be true in some campaigns, it is laughable as a generalization.

 

[satori01]

These are cases I think DM rulings and general logic play a hand, not slavish devotion to the rules as written. Does an insubstantial missle of force take up more space than an arrow?
Was Mirror Image intended to be an anit Magic Missle spell? Logically one could argue Magic Missle is the anti Mirror Image spell, since if you cant target the Images, you would naturally target the real person.

Since the point of Mirror Image is to siphon away attacks, I would let someone cast Magic Missle at a false Mirror Image, makes more sense to me.

Magic Missle is probably more like a second level spell. I certainly think it is a better attack spell than Melfs at higher level.
Magic Missle becomes a ranged Coup de Grace at higher levels, especially when you add in Metamagic Feats like Heighten, Quicken, and Empowered.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Logically one could argue Magic Missle is the anti Mirror Image spell, since if you cant target the Images, you would naturally target the real person.

Let's say you're a 1st level wizard. You know that over there, there are three statues of a goblin assassin, and one goblin assassin disguised as a statue of a goblin assassin.

You can't just cast Magic Missile "to hit the real goblin assassin". You have to choose a target. If it's a creature, a missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target. If it's not a creature: "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted."

Now let's say you're a 3rd level wizard in the same situation. You have two options - direct both missiles at one target, or direct one missile at each of two targets.

If you direct both missiles at one target, and it happens to be the real goblin assassin,
two missiles of magical energy dart forth from your fingertip and strikes their target. If it's a statue, "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted."

So what if you split the missiles? Let's say you choose one statue, and the real goblin assassin. Strictly, you're casting the spell in conditions If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform - one of the targets you chose is not 'one or more creature'. As written, the casting fails and the spell is wasted.

As a DM, I'd rule instead that one missile darts forth and strikes the real goblin, while the other missile fails and is wasted, but I acknowledge that I'm deviating from the strict wording of the "Spell Failure" section.

Now let's replace the statues with mirror image figments.

-Hyp.

 

[Grog]

EBT covers a 20-ft.-radius spread, and hits everyone in that area. Surely it's come up in your games, many times, when you cannot use an area attack spell without harming your own party members.

Magic Missle does the following things:

Hits only the targets you want it to hit, and not your allies;
Always hits (except for the cases like total cover);
Does force damage so it effects even incorporeal targets;
Has no saving throw;
Increases both the number of targets and the damage dealt as your caster level increases, up to 9th level;
Is a first level spell.

Spells that require an attack roll, or a saving throw, or an area instead of precise target(s), just don't hold up in certain relatively common circumstances when compared to what magic missle can do.

Nor does Magic Missile hold up in common circumstances when compared to what other spells can do. Particularly 4th level spells.

Can Magic Missile cause your opponents to fight each other?

Can Magic Missile give the party fighter +4/+6 to Strength, a +5 natural armor bonus, 10 foot natural reach, and possibly even a Dex bonus as well?

Can Magic Missile grapple multiple foes at once and crush them to death?

Can Magic Missile take a meele-oriented enemy completely out of the fight with a Reflex save (which meele-oriented combatants are usually pretty bad at)?

Can Magic Missile give someone up to four negative levels, resulting in penalties to just about every die roll, and spellcasters losing access to their highest levels of spells?

Can Magic Missile give someone 10 points of DR that is probably unbeatable in most cases at 8th level?

If the sorceress in your group is routinely using 4th level slots to cast Magic Missile, she either has a suboptimal selection of combat spells or simply doesn't know what she's doing.

And one other thing, Magic Missile's damage AND number of targets don't increase with level, the damage OR the number of targets increases. Big difference.

 

[Warmage-in-Onley]

You can't fire magic missiles through all arrow slits. You need at least a 1 square foot hole to shoot a spell through. If the arrow slit is, for example, 3 feet high and 3 inches across, that wouldn't allow a spell through (except for fireball). I'm also not sure how magic missile is helpful against mirror image. You can't target the images, as magic missile must target a creature. A spell that fails to function because of invalid targeting surely isn't a "successful attack".

Except, see page 51 of the FAQ: "You aim your spells and your attacks at the figments just as though they were real creatures." The images ARE legitimate targets for spells that require a creature(s) for a target(s).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except, see page 51 of the FAQ: "You aim your spells and your attacks at the figments just as though they were real creatures." The images ARE legitimate targets for spells that require a creature(s) for a target(s).

But where did they get that from? It's not supported by anything in the text. According to the rules, a creature requires a Wisdom and a Charisma score.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

But where did they get that from? It's not supported by anything in the text. According to the rules, a creature requires a Wisdom and a Charisma score.

-Hyp.

You heartless bastard. Is that all a creature is to you, a Wisdom and Charisma score? What about their ability to feel? To love? To tell right from wrong? To experience the beauty of a summer's day? To wonder at the grandeur of creation?

I am not a number! I am a FREE MAN!

 

[satori01]

Hyp, you post supports my general contention that sometimes the DM has to make judgement calls. The heyday of Illusion magic was 1e where it was assumed it worked. 3.5 makes the Illusion school untenable in many cases. I would conjecture the design intent behind "not being able to target object and constructs" was really to say the spell does not work on objects, which is what they should have said instead of "not being able to target".

I would say the point of Illusion spells are to fool people. The point of Magic Missle is not to ferret out Illusions.

 

[Deset Gled]

The point of Magic Missle is not to ferret out Illusions.

[Devil's Advocate]
Why can't the point of Magic Missle be to ferret out Illusions?
[/Devil's Advocate]

 

[irdeggman]

But where did they get that from? It's not supported by anything in the text. According to the rules, a creature requires a Wisdom and a Charisma score.

-Hyp.

Probably from the spell description itself.

Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total). These figments separate from you and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you. You can move into and through a mirror image. When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic your actions, pretending to cast spells when you cast a spell, drink potions when you drink a potion, levitate when you levitate, and so on.

Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack against an image destroys it. An image’s AC is 10 + your size modifier + your Dex modifier. Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball).

While moving, you can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded.

An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect. (Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)

Which seems to imply that anything that can target the caster of the images can also target the images.