Magic the Gathering as RPG?

[JoeGKushner]

On the Dragon Subscription thread, Shady brought up some interesting points.

Magic is not as young as it used to be. It's expanded to computer and console games. Perhaps someone might have noticed that some of the best selling console games aren't actually magic but official D&D games, not counting general fantasy games like Fable and Morrowwind? Heck, think of the miniatures that could be made! Another market already in play!

Can someone explain the reasoning to me in a way that makes sense in the real world?

This is maybe a different thread, but I find it difficult to believe that WotC's cards group thinks MtG is a bigger brand than Everquest, Warcraft or Buffy. Or that (since it would be done by sub-brand) Mirrodin is a bigger brand than (see previous list). OK not difficult to believe (and I'd suspected as much), but difficult to believe that WotC management lets them think it.

In general, a few points (and again, maybe this should be a different thread, as it's not so related to Dragon):
- many of the best RPG products and product lines of recent years, have used or introduced specific settings - Eberron, Arcana Unearthed, Iron Kingdoms, Midnight, etc. Some of the stuff from those settings is more widely usable in homebrew, and of course the designers have an eye on that anyhow, but within the new setting context you can bring together a number of new ideas, rules and concepts and play with them in a convincing manner.
- MtG has a number of interesting settings, mechanisms, creatures etc which could be mapped in interesting ways to D20, at no harm to the MtG brand. In fact MtG retires settings even more ruthlessly than D&D does. I can understand those who dislike the game ... personally I'm a fan, I play casually online, and buy a few theme decks to play with the kids, and enjoy it, and I'm impressed by the thought and imagination that goes into the settings.
- I'd personally prefer more well thought out setting books (like Ghostwalk) to half empty irrelevancies like Races of Destiny and the Arms & Equipment Guide.
- And also, I would have thought that as a company they'd be interested in feeding their pre-painted miniatures cash cow with interesting new creatures (which is why I'm skeptical about seeing painting & conversion articles in Dragon).

 

[GSHamster]

Well, is there any pressing need to make MtG a D&D setting? I'm not sure there is.

Secondly, Magic seems to moving to a system where each new block (one block is composed of three sets, and is released each year) is in a different setting. The last one was Mirrodin (metal world), this one is Kamigawa (Japanese spirits), and the next one is Ravinca (looks like some sort of city-state with guilds). So one MtG setting doesn't make much sense anymore.

Now, releasing a new setting book -- not MtG specifically, but a Mirrodin or Kamigawa setting book -- might be interesting. Of course the setting usually changes significantly as the sets in the block are released, so then you have the issue of when is the book set, and when should it be released.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Pressing need? Nope.

Some neat options? Yup.

It wouldn't even necessarily have to be a world book?

How about Monsters of Magic or Legends of Magic or Lore of magic? Monster, character, and magic item/spell hardcovers right there.

 

[Zappo]

WotC had this idea too, but didn't do it. Some time ago, an ex-WotC guy (I wish I could remember who it was... but it was too long ago) said that interdepartmental conflict killed the D&D Magic project before it could even start. The Magic guys didn't want the D&D guys to get a hold of their toy, and IIRC they decided that nothing would be done with Magic unless it was collectible. Since you can't really do that with a RPG, the whole thing ended in nothing. A pity really.

For the reasons mentioned in this thread, a Magic setting done the traditional way would encounter several issues. But there are other models which could work fine. A book about the "metasetting" in general and the main world, and a setting book about a new plane every now and then. I think that could work.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Heck, I'm hoping that they do go with the click idea on this. There are far more monsters in the Magic setting than D&D so it could work out a heck of a lot better.

 

[Zappo]

I would make a thick basic book, with general background information, overall rules, and D&D versions of Magic objects (meaning spells, monsters, artefacts...). It would be a rather thick book, full of new spells, new feats, new PrCs, new monsters, an alternative magic system or two, and Magic's background. I think that people who aren't interested in Magic's background would still buy it. Crunchy books sell and Magic is practically entirely composed of independant stuff that can be stolen for one's homebrew.

 

[exile]

I like the idea of a M:tG setting. The format that I think most appropriate would be an initial hardback volume that has lots of fluff and crunch (gads...I've never actually typed those words in that context before). This initial volume would examine the history, personalities, etc. of the original M:tG setting. Crunch would come in the form of new spells (of course), new monsters (of course), and new magic items (and all those coool Moxes and Black Whatnotses could be included because the DM can control whether or not he actually gives them out). Of course the initial book would make reference to all of the other planes which would ultimately become boosk unto themselves: Kamigawa, Arabian Nights, etc.

So, pressing need for this? No. Neat idea? Yes. Would I buy it? 100% yes, every product in the line.

Chad

 

[Michael Morris]

I've worked on something in this vein for 2 years. If it doesn't come to fruition soon I don't know what I'll do. But it will be another dream destroyed.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How do you mean working on? A petition? Home brew deal? Speak up man!

 

[shady]

Aha! I knew if I kept on harping about this someone would answer. Old Jedi mind trick.

There's no pressing need to make MtG a D20 setting. There is however a pressing need on WotC's part to continue produce and introduce interesting material, and often the wells seem to run dry. As evidence, I call the additional races section of Races of Destiny.

Secondly, each MtG block (a block is a group of 3 or 4 card set releases) is pretty much a new setting (or to MtG a plane, or maybe an era in a particular plane), with new mechanics, new creatures and some new binding ideas. and my point is, by and large they're a lot better and more interesting than the setting ideas in the core books that WotC has been putting out recently, and off of which Dragon/Dungeon have to feed.

And from an economic/branding point of view I would have thought that WotC can continue to make serious money from licensing interesting properties for computer games and other entertainment spinoffs (and therefore from developing the various sub-brands they seem so capable of spinning out) rather than continuing to labour under the delusion that MtG can be developed into a kind of golf for spendthrift nerds.

And now, we return to coverage of the pro tour.