Magic the Gathering as RPG?

[Rasyr]

WotC had this idea too, but didn't do it. Some time ago, an ex-WotC guy (I wish I could remember who it was... but it was too long ago) said that interdepartmental conflict killed the D&D Magic project before it could even start. The Magic guys didn't want the D&D guys to get a hold of their toy, and IIRC they decided that nothing would be done with Magic unless it was collectible. Since you can't really do that with a RPG, the whole thing ended in nothing. A pity really.

Who knows... Perhaps M:tG will be the official setting for D&D 4.0 -- the edition that is almost totaly mini-centric.....

And now, I think that I shall run and hide before the tomatoes start flying.....

 

[Greatwyrm]

Even now, I'm still surprised at how much IP they're sitting on that could be making them money. They wouldn't even need to do a full setting. A book (or three or four) of spells, same for monsters, a book of magic items.

Good ideas are the hard part and that's already been done. All they have to do is put stat's to them.

 

[Sir Elton]

Who knows... Perhaps M:tG will be the official setting for D&D 4.0 -- the edition that is almost totaly mini-centric.....

And now, I think that I shall run and hide before the tomatoes start flying.....

Tim! Watch out! It's the . . . KILLER TOMATOES! (in the shape of beautiful, drop dead, hot women no less!) HEHE

Actually, I think it will be a bad idea. Legend of the Five Rings is completely dominated by the collectible card game, and the RPGers of Legend of the Five Rings suffer for it. Despite the momentum that D&D has by itself, do you honestly think that Magic the Gathering won't take over D&D?

 

[Rasyr]

Guys, I was joking (well..... sort of....).

But think about it for a second.

3.0 had an ingrained assumption that players are using minis and several rules are designed specifically for this. Then along comes 3.5 and it is even more tied to minis. Then along comes the minis game, and the collectible minis. Am I the only one seeing a trend here?

Now granted, I have no idea when or what form 4.0 will take, although I have made my guesses (depending on which way you do the math, either 2006 or 2008, though I lean more towards 2006). I have also "guessed" that it would not be OGL. (Note: I have explained my reasoning behind these two dates before, so I won't repreat it)

Now, in take the "trend" and add that in, and you get D&D4.0 which is a lot more like Warhammer, only with collectible minis (shudder).

And this doesn't even incorporate the the Hasbro mentality that "toys are good" and that "minis = toys", along with "collectibles are good" and "minis are collectible" (as Whizkids have proven). To me, personally, that only strengthens the idea. Nor does it consider the fact that marketing loves to leverage products off one another (marketing people are the true evil of society, just ask ANY developer who has had to deal with providing something that marketing has promised customers - something that was never in the original design specs)

So, even though my post above was in jest, it is still a possibility (and one I consider a scary possibility)

 

[RangerWickett]

The rules for D&D 4th edition will be sold in randomized booster packs, each of which contains one rare chapter and three uncommon chapters. The core chapters - character creation, combat, and similar general rules with no crunch, will be sold in starter packs.

Minis will have feats, spells, or magic items printed on their bases.

Dice will be collectible as well, with some d20s actually only having 17 sides.

 

[frankthedm]

Here is the problem, Unless players are the epically powerful plainswalkers, who Call[1] forth creatures and heroes to fight their battles between themselves [and thus why not play the actual Magic game], or the players risk being summoned to battles to actually die and suffer the world shattering magics of those said Plainswalkers, then the Magic brand concept is diluted and the Magic team's duty is to prevent that.

[1]As per D&D it is a calling effect since when the called critter is killed the body stays around to be animated, etc.

 

[Remathilis]

Michael,

I've followed Dusk ever since it was in 2e form PO version. I have lots of it spread amongst my own house rules, etc.
I can sympathize with your plight. Its the nature of the beast. For every Midnight, there has to be a Demonstone.
I hope some of your material can be salvaged for publishing, esp the Art of Magic concept of 5 color magic. I've always liked the concept of the 5 elemental colors vs. the 8 "schools" of magic...

Either Way, good luck.

[/hijack]

 

[JoeGKushner]

Here is the problem, Unless players are the epically powerful plainswalkers, who Call[1] forth creatures and heroes to fight their battles between themselves [and thus why not play the actual Magic game], or the players risk being summoned to battles to actually die and suffer the world shattering magics of those said Plainswalkers, then the Magic brand concept is diluted and the Magic team's duty is to prevent that.

[1]As per D&D it is a calling effect since when the called critter is killed the body stays around to be animated, etc.

Didn't seem to prevent them from doing probably a dozen novels or so where the main character's aren't planeswalkers. Heck, some of my favorite stories involve the Weatherlight. Heck, I'd like to see rules for how to take down such epic characters. The Titan Suits that the main mage of the first series forged were awesome. Perhaps it could give us alternative epic rules?

 

[shady]

Here is the problem, Unless players are the epically powerful plainswalkers, who Call[1] forth creatures and heroes to fight their battles between themselves [and thus why not play the actual Magic game], or the players risk being summoned to battles to actually die and suffer the world shattering magics of those said Plainswalkers, then the Magic brand concept is diluted and the Magic team's duty is to prevent that.

This may be what they are saying inside WotC but the primary purpose of the company is to make money (followed closely and in a somewhat related way by keeping its customers happy and winning new customers), not the avoidance of brand dilution, especially in such an abstract way.

I'd also add it isn't true, because, setting aside the fact that 99% of the target market couldn't care less about such niceties, the assumption behind the setting churn is that the planeswalkers move on to other planes and battles, so there are long interim periods without such conflict in a particular plane, wherein a setting might be run. And since the epic wizardry of the planewalkers might not be the same as the more mundane wizardry of the characters, you could even run the settings with the regular magic system.

There seem to be two debates here:
- firstly should there be an RPG based on MTG, possibly under a hybrid brand and adapting MTG mechanics. I'd argue not. Or rather, if I ran WotC I probably wouldn't do it, since I don't need to.
- secondly could MTG settings be reused to develop interesting new D&D and D&D mini material, probably without reusing the MTG brand. I'd argue they should - it won't harm either brand and they would reinvigorate their D&D line. I think that otherwise, with the path we're on, I expect a D&D 4E by end of next year, invalidating all the books so they can resell them to us with minor rules tweaks and additional errata.