Magic Vestment

[mzsylver]

The cleric I ran for in the ToEE also did the same thing. He got cocky and a pair of hasted clerics each used two Inflict serious or moderate or whatever on him and he didn't like that as much. No save, just touch and he's crying for mama!

actually... you get a save for Inflict spells! look it up! most people miss it!

 

[JLXC]

Same module, with the same problem. Mr Cleric (Hey if I cast these spells on me, I can't cast them on you! You need my healing right? Selfish Clerics suck) is the same. What to do?

How about nothing. That's right, nothing. You'll find later in the module, even in the CRM near the Fire Temple, that there are plenty of touch AC monsters (Specter anyone) and Area of Effect Monsters.

Also, once monsters in the fight realize they can't hit this guy they will try something different if smart. Examples:

Cleric is being swarmed by wimps who cannot hit him. He kills 1 or 2 per round! Well then how about Aid Another actions for +2 grapple per helper. 5 Gnolls swarm Cleric, 4 aid one of the other ones, +12 grapple should be able to tie him up.

Tanglefoot Bags and Alchemists Fire are cheap and can be used to good effect.

The Water Temple has water combine with Dispel Magic from the priests = Owie.

Play the module well and attack the cleric at different points in the day. Most parties think they can attack, blow all their spells, then go hide. LEt them. Wait 10 to 12 hours and THEN the baddies assault when the spells are all worn off. Monsters understand magic too, it's not "Cheating" to allow them to think as well as a PC could.

These have all worked well for me.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Wait, didn't the above poster say that armor cannot have more than +5 in total bonuses? Not just enhancement?

Yes, for its AC, not the special bonuses for things like Heavy Fortification. That is a +10 cap.

What that statement from the spell means is that a suit of armor cannot have more than +5 to its AC, regardless of the bonus types.

 

[the Jester]

Yes, for its AC, not the special bonuses for things like Heavy Fortification. That is a +10 cap.

What that statement from the spell means is that a suit of armor cannot have more than +5 to its AC, regardless of the bonus types.

Precisely. I don't consider extra powers to matter, so a suit of +1 leather armor of shadows, silence and fortification could still get another +2 to its AC from the Magic Vestment spell.

That's how I run it, anyway; clerics can stack the heck out of their bonuses anyway.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Jester made me think about something that has not come up yet in my games. If you have a suit of armor with a +1 enhancement and special abilities totaling +7 so that your total is +8, can you get more than a +2 from Magic Vestment (or similar spell)? Say you are a 15th level cleric. Does you Magic Vestment spell increase this armor's enhancement bonus to +5 for the duration of the spell, or is the temporary enhancement restricted to the +10 cap?

 

[Mr.Binx]

Good ideas from everyone. Just as a recap:

1. Dispel Magic: Dispel the magic using goof! This is one of the most useful spells in the game. If you feel like giving the player a dose of that helpless feeling that they haven't had in a while, sunder a couple of items while he/she is dispelled.

2. Touch Attacks & Ethereal Attacks: Both of these attacks ignore any bonuses due to armor in most cases and can be extremely effective. Ever fought an Arcane Trickster who can sneak attack for 11d6 negative energy damage with Vampiric Touch and then add said damage to himself as temporary hit points? Thanks for the hitpoints sir.

3. Grappling: Another highly effective tactic. If you are grappled then you are only able to use weapons of size small or less. You also have to make concentration checks to cast spells while involved in a grapple. (my group also plays with a house rule that you are unable to use any shield larger than a small shield in a grapple, but some rule-players tend to scoff at house rules so this may not be for you). A good example would be to take a standard crocodile, beef it up, call it a Dire Crocodile, then have it attack the player with a standard grapple attack (not the improved grab) while he is flat footed or doesn't have an attack of opportunity available. You do a touch attack to start the grapple, pin, and then you get automatic damage every round against the player until he/she can break the croc's pin.

4. Rust Monster or Rusting Grasp spell: Ouch! Nuff' said.

-Rush Lobreto
Fort Worth, Tx U.S.A.

 

[kramis]

mass confusion

It seems that there is some confusion here and several people are arguing about completely different things with regard to the max +5 issue. I'd like to try and help get everyone on the same page.

There are two issues here, the normal armor rules (+5 max enhancement, +10 max enchanment) and the ambiguous comment at the end of the spell.

The normal rules don't have much place here, and no one is contesting them. The people above who mention them seem to be just confused about other people talking about the spell.

The comment at the end of the spell about +5 max bonus is definitely ambiguous and can be interpreted several ways. I could be a very poorly written reminder of the normal rules, but it would be very poorly written in this case. However this is possible, and it might have said more initially and got a bit garbled during editing.

The other interpretation is more along the lines of the suggestions above, that it is a max AC period for use with this spell ... in other words this spell as NO EFFECT at all on full plate. That is not to say you can't have magic full plate, just that this spell doesn't work on it.

The wording does seem to imply the second option over the first, but it is badly written for that option too, but at least it's a bit closer.

I tried comparing the spell to Greater Magic Weapon to see if that would help give some clues. They both have the same duration, so if you look at it "financially" (how much you save over have to make +5 armor) it seems fine for the first interpretation ... magic weapons cost more than magic armor with the same bonus. However, there is no similar comment at the end of magic weapon or Greater Magic Weapon, so that implies that second option since if it was just a badly worded reminder you would think they would have the same under the weapon spells.

My 2 cents anyways.

 

[Uller]

I've sent the sage the question and summed up the two possible meanings. Hopefully we'll get a response!