Magic Weapons for "Throwers"

[Kyrail]

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What magic items would work well for a "Thrower" charecter, one who uses Throwing Knives (Shurikens) almost exclusively. He's quite twinked out, being an NPC, and can lob up to 10 shurikens in a full attack (Rgr2/Ftr4/Mst1). The big advantage of a charecter who has new weapons in his hand every round is that he can have a varied type of weapons. He's got a bundle of +1 Distance Throwing Knives for when he needs more range (with Farshot he's got 40ft range) 5-10 throwing knives of Exit Wounds from Complete Warrior for when the PC's line themselves up for a convieniant shot. What other types of enchantments would be good?

Shock/Flame/Cold weapons require activation, can you activate a whole set of ammunition with the command word, or is it a standard action to activate just one?

The DMG states that Bolts, Quarrels, Bullets, and Arrows have a 50% break chance on miss, and are destroyed when they hit. The Shuriken is a core book weapon, did they exclude it on purpose or is it destroyed like normal ammo?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Staffan]

I had a longer reply written up, but the server ate it. So, just some short stuff:

1. Shuriken are treated as ammo for a lot of things, including what happens to them after being launched. So the magical shuriken are one-shots. The reason they aren't noted as such in the DMG is that whomever were revising that part of the DMG had missed the rules change to shuriken from 3.0 - there are a couple of similar errors here and there. Also, the base price for shuriken should be 310 gp for 50, not 301 for one as implied by the table.

2. I'd allow a single command word to activate up to 50 identical pieces of ammunition. 20 flaming shuriken, yes. 20 shocking shuriken, yes. Both at once, no. I think this is mentioned in either the FAQ or errata, but I'm not certain.

 

[Kyrail]

Keeping track of the shurikens that miss is gonna be the hardest part about running this guy, since all of those are potential loot for the PCs.

I am also making a Magic Item as per Effecient Quiver that will hold 60 Shurikens/Darts, and up to 10 Dagger shaped weapons. It's not as good as the original quiver, but I figure keeping the price at 1,800 is pretty fair.

The 60 throwing knives themselves will be worth about 11,600, which I suppose is pretty steep for weapons, but at 5 attacks per round he's gonna eat through them pretty quick. Aren't there items out there that create +1 ammo (I think it was a quiver) that replenishes itself? I could adjust it to throwing knives and it would make alot more sense.

 

[Staffan]

The 60 throwing knives themselves will be worth about 11,600, which I suppose is pretty steep for weapons, but at 5 attacks per round he's gonna eat through them pretty quick.

How do you get to that price? +1 distance = +2 equivalent, so that's 8,000, plus the 310 gp for 50 masterwork shuriken. Which would put 50 of them at 8,310 or 9,972 for 60.

Aren't there items out there that create +1 ammo (I think it was a quiver) that replenishes itself? I could adjust it to throwing knives and it would make alot more sense.

I haven't seen one, but I don't think it would be all that abusive to have a thingy that casts greater magic weapon once per day on its contents. The default market price of that would be something like 5,400 - that's the cost of ~120 +1 pieces of ammo, so I'm thinking it would be OK. You could increase it to 8,640 in order to get +2 weapons that last for 8 hours, or 12,960 for +3 weapons that last for 12. Note that neither of these would provide any special abilities for the weapon, just the straight enhancement bonus.

Or you could get a wand of greater magic weapon for 11,250 (higher for higher bonuses), be able to do it multiple times per day (but max 50 total), and spend some of your skill points on Use Magic Device. If you only want the skill for the wand use, you probably don't need a lot of ranks, since it's not exactly time-critical.

 

[Kyrail]

How do you get to that price? +1 distance = +2 equivalent, so that's 8,000, plus the 310 gp for 50 masterwork shuriken. Which would put 50 of them at 8,310 or 9,972 for 60.

Exit Wounds is a +2 enchantment. Making it a +3 weapon.

I remember where I remember the +1 arrow quiver, I think it was just from the IceWind Dale Trilogy. Is Catterlea (or whatever her name is) written up anymore like Drizzt is?

 

[demonpunk]

re

The easy way to keep track of thrown shuriken is just assume that half of them are lost or broken when the PCs search for them.

What if the daggers aren't enchanted, but the NPC has some kind of magical gauntlet that enchants the daggers he throws? Too keep things a little more balanced (in case the PCs get ahold of it), maybe the daggers have to be keyed to the gauntlets to work. So he can't just pick up anything and throw it with a bonus, it has to be specially prepared daggers (and the backstory on that could be interesting).

Congrats on using a thrower. They're really cool, but so hard to do from a rules standpoint.

 

[Timely Drought]

I've always liked poison with shuriken, but D&D rules for poison use are not very favorable.

 

[Darklone]

I'd like to have seen a Returning enhancement for thrown weapons that sends ammunition/throwing axes back to the quiver/holster.

For extra damage, simply let him cast a Flame Arrow on the shuriken.

 

[vulcan_idic]

Shuriken are treated as ammo for a lot of things, including what happens to them after being launched. So the magical shuriken are one-shots. The reason they aren't noted as such in the DMG is that whomever were revising that part of the DMG had missed the rules change to shuriken from 3.0 - there are a couple of similar errors here and there. Also, the base price for shuriken should be 310 gp for 50, not 301 for one as implied by the table.

I can understand their use as ammo in many instances, but not in the case of the breakage rules, which is why in games that I DM I alter this somewhat. The break chance for arrows, bolts, and quarrels make sense when one considers 1) Their wooden shafts which are somewhat prone to snapping and 2) the fletching, whose purpose is to insure the spinning of the projectile through the air thus insuring it's accuracy and 3) the nature of their assembly - a head, attached to a shaft, attached to fletching. Relatively minor damage to any one or more of these delicate things can potentially render this projectile useless for firing.

In the case of magically enhanced projectiles of the above variety I usually shift the chances in favor of surviving - they are constructed better, but the truly critical factor is the magic which, in my opinion, enhances the structural integrity of the projectile commensurately with it's enhancement - thus to the base of %50 I usually add %5 per +1 equivalency of enhancement to it's survival chance.

When considering a shuriken however few if any of these factors apply. They are generally one piece, and of metal - thus the factors contributing to the breakage of some of the other varieties of ammunition are not represented here. The most that could be "broken" on a shuriken is a dulling or burring of the slicing/piercing surface (depending on whether a bo shuriken or hira shuriken is being used) - though this could be easily remedied with a little time with a whetstone. Thus, for shuriken I replace the breakage chance (including my modification for magic) with the same percentage chance to be dulled and thus require sharpening before further use.

To make up for this difference in the ruling in my own games, I also raise the price of shuriken on the theory that the secrets of their creation are a closely guarded secret not commonly known, thus they are hard to find and the base price is generally 10-30 gold *a piece* - not for 50 as quoted before. These are items, therefore that the user is not wont to toss around idly, and will certainly insure that he or she can reclaim them for later use if at all possible. This tends to make the Returning quality a popular add on for them in my games as it both insures it's return after a throw and, due to my magic modifier, improves the chances of it's not needing sharpening constantly.

 

[Darklone]

IIRC, the breakage rule for ammunition was in the case of bolts and arrows more due to the fact that a hit opponent tends to break the shaft.