Magically Equipped vs. Unequipped - What is the Level Difference?

[Moonstone Spider]

The Order of the Stick's abilities are somewhat unpredictable and don't really follow the rules of DnD very closely. For instance Roy's Bag of Tricks has produced both Rats and Rhinos. Rich Burlew has stated that he won't ever give out their exact level or abilities because he wants to be free to adlib as needed without contradicting anything he's said before.

Anyway on the main question, let's take a fighter as an example. He's the weakest without tools so this will be a highest-end baseline. Let's assume our 20th level fighter has a +5 weapon and a +6 belt of giant strength, and a +6 amulet of health.

He's lost +8 to hit and damage as a result, the equivalent of weapon specialization four times over for eight levels of feats just on damage alone. 8 Levels would also give him, by some coincidence, +8 to hit as a result of BAB so on that front those pieces of gear have set him back 8 levels.

Let's assume the fighter had Con 18 when he started. Assuming an average of 6 points per hit dice rolled and +4 for his con bonus he gets about 10HP per level. At level 20 the additional +3HD would have net him 60 more HP, so HP wise he's six levels down.

So based purely on weapon damage and HP it would look like a level 20 fighter's down by about 6-8 levels. Adding in armor bonuses probably easily takes him down to -8 levels although I don't have a good way to compare that offhand since the fighter has no ability to increase armor by level except equipment.

 

[BobbyMac]

No one (except LostSoul) seems to be addressing the fact that the wizard has LOST HIS SPELLBOOK!!!!!

I mean if you're gonna say that they lost ALL magic items then how is the wizard still powerful??

Unless you're only talking about the time immediately after they lost all that stuff... which is a different situation altogether....

ahem...

 

[drothgery]

No one (except LostSoul) seems to be addressing the fact that the wizard has LOST HIS SPELLBOOK!!!!!

Technically, a wizard's spellbook is not a magic item; it's in the PHB 'equipment' chapter, not the DMG 'magic items' chapter.

 

[Destil]

The topic was spured by Mord's disjunction, so the wizard's spellbook would usually be intact (the same for the fighter's masterwork but non-magical sword).

If you remove all equipment, including holy symbols, spell component pouches and spellbooks the only classes that won't be screwed are the psion and the monk....

 

[BobbyMac]

The topic was spured by Mord's disjunction, so the wizard's spellbook would usually be intact (the same for the fighter's masterwork but non-magical sword).

If you remove all equipment, including holy symbols, spell component pouches and spellbooks the only classes that won't be screwed are the psion and the monk....

Thanks for the clarify...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So based purely on weapon damage and HP it would look like a level 20 fighter's down by about 6-8 levels. Adding in armor bonuses probably easily takes him down to -8 levels although I don't have a good way to compare that offhand since the fighter has no ability to increase armor by level except equipment.

There are some feats earned between levels 12-20 that make up some of the difference. OTOH, once you hit 10th level there are a lot of obstacles/encounters that are easily defeated with a little added mobility (Potion of Fly, Wand of Invisibility) that become highly dangerous if you are forced to go toe-to-toe -- i.e. Remorhaz, Hydra, etc.

 

[Hussar]

I don't really think you can say it's a flat percentage really. Because power levels scale exponentially, the difference in characters would also radically change.

I have to admit, I was a little skeptical when I saw Dragonblade's chart, but, thinking about it, it makes a great deal of sense. The difference between a 7th level character fully loaded and one with no magic items isn't actually all that large. Dropping it to 5th is about right. But, by the high double digits, the difference is very large. As was mentioned, losing +8 to hit, 10 points of AC and sundry other effects is a huge blow.

Honestly, I think DB has hit it rather well.

 

[Cheiromancer]

A mordenkainen's disjunction technically doesn't touch a wizard's spellbook... unless it is a Boccob's blessed book. Or "safely" tucked away in a portable hole, bag of holding or... what happens to items in a Heward's handy haversack if it is disjoined?

It actually seems to be quite likely that a wizard would lose his spellbook one way or another if a disjunction destroys all the magic items.

In general, though, I'd say that equipment is worth about 1/3 of the ECL. With the last 1% or so being worth a lot more (spell component pouch, holy symbol, etc.)

 

[Brother MacLaren]

So based purely on weapon damage and HP it would look like a level 20 fighter's down by about 6-8 levels. Adding in armor bonuses probably easily takes him down to -8 levels although I don't have a good way to compare that offhand since the fighter has no ability to increase armor by level except equipment.

And I would say that probably the second priority for a fighter, after a magic weapon, is a Cloak of Resistance for those Will saves. Assuming a cloak is as strong as a caster of your level could make, it's +5 at levels 15+. Will save at 20th is then +14 with 12 Wis and Iron Will. Losing the cloak puts the fighter at +9, which is about where he was at levels 9-11 (+3 base, +1 Wis, +3 cloak, +2 Iron Will). So Will save has dropped about 10 levels' worth.

 

[Mark CMG]

Once you get past a certain level, a lot of what you can potentially run into requires certain items to overcome. You might have to go through some encounter tables and strike through a number of creatures or adjust them.