D&D (2024) Make SPELLS Balanced

[Staffan]

The 2014 Dungeon Masters Guide (page 284) advises how much damage a spell should do per slot. However, similar to how the Monster Manual ignores the DMG advice for monsters, the Players Handbook ignores the DMG advice for spells. For example, the DMG says a 3rd-slot spell should deal 21 damage (6d6), but no spell like this exists in 5e. 5e spells deal amounts of damage that are wildly inconsistent. Even so, it is possible to identify certain spells as bench marks that other spells can measure against. Whence: multi-target should deal about 7 damage per slot and single-target should deal about 9 damage per slot.

Damage, however, is not the only concern. One thing that's clearly taken into account is AOE. You mention Circle of Death and its low damage (same damage as 3rd level fireball but using a 6th level slot) – but Circle of Death has an absolutely massive area, 9 times that of a Fireball.

Instead of the scaling single-target 81 damage, Power Word Kill deals 100 damage.

Power Word Kill deals no damage. It kills a target with 100 hp or fewer, but if the target has e.g. 101 hp it has no effect.

It is essentially the same as Sleep, only a higher-level version.

 

[Horwath]

The Wildfire Druid should probably have both Fireball (and Lightning Bolt since lightning normally causes natural wildfires) as well as Plantgrowth (since the forest burnings fertilize the soil).

The Wildfire Druid also needs access to Revivify if serving as the party healer.

as Revivify is not Druid spell, it should be 3rd level bonus with Fireball.
Druid can access Plant growth normally with preparation.

 

[Horwath]

Brainstorming.

The Wizard can have a feature that can increase the die size of the Fireball spell and any other Fire spell.

For balance generally, a 3rd-slot spell deals about 6d6 damage.

But the Wizard feature would convert d6→d8 to deal 6d8 damage.

It would work for other Fire spells too, including cantrips and Burning Hands.

d6+1 is more reliable than d8 with same average damage.

that is better for some "trained" or "specialized" bonus.

 

[aco175]

d6+1 is more reliable than d8 with same average damage.

that is better for some "trained" or "specialized" bonus.

I might like having specialized wizards re-roll 1s on the damage and then have a level ability where they re-roll 2s as well. Instead of just adding more damage that is static. Players like to roll dice and not be disappointed when the dice suck.

 

[Yaarel]

I might like having specialized wizards re-roll 1s on the damage and then have a level ability where they re-roll 2s as well. Instead of just adding more damage that is static. Players like to roll dice and not be disappointed when the dice suck.

Yeah. The reroll looks solid, and can work with other spells that use different dice.

Fireball 6d6 reroll 1s and 2s (27 damage) ≈ 8d6 (28 damage)

And the Wizard class can boost it incrementally, starting with reroll 1s and elsewhere upgrade to reroll 2s.

 

[Yaarel]

Damage, however, is not the only concern. One thing that's clearly taken into account is AOE. You mention Circle of Death and its low damage (same damage as 3rd level fireball but using a 6th level slot) – but Circle of Death has an absolutely massive area, 9 times that of a Fireball.

Unless the caster can "sculpt" the area effect to avoid hitting allies, the larger the area effect means the less useful the spell is − thus the lower the level it is.

But generally, the Players Handbook doesnt take area effect into consideration in any consistent way.

When it comes to spells that were subpar in earlier editions, 5e tends to import them as-is without too much thought. For example, in 5e, it makes less sense for Telepathy to be an 8th-slot spell (it could easily be a 3rd-slot spell), or Legend Lore to be 5th-slot spell (when the 5e History skill obsoletes it). Several spells are examples of a rough cut-and-paste from earlier editions. Only the spells that were brokenly powerful and caused huge problems in earlier edition got the proper attention of the 5e designers.

Power Word Kill deals no damage. It kills a target with 100 hp or fewer, but if the target has e.g. 101 hp it has no effect.

True. But it is normally easy to know if the hostile has less than 100 hit points.

In case of doubt, soften the hostile up first before casting Power Word Kill.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I disagree that fireball should be downgraded to 6d6.

8d6 actually does the right amount of damage at that level. Enough to actually be worth taking over a debuff.

6d6... not so much.

Probably they should update the table instead of downgrading.

I think 7d6 would also be ok.

3d6 at level 1 + 2d6 per spell level.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Several damage spells might need to relocate to a lower slot where they can become competitive with the other spells at that lower slot. Otherwise to remain in their current slot, they require a damage boost or possibly additional effects. Examples of subpar damage spells include: Melfs Acid Arrow, Conjure Barrage, Ice Storm, Flame Strike, Circle of Death, Fire Storm, and Sunburst.

Please. Update damage and effect, don't relocate. And mutlitarket should absolutely start with 3d6 (burning hands) , if there is no additional effect. Single target can be 3d10 (inflict wounds) and not be unbalanced.

 

[Horwath]

I might like having specialized wizards re-roll 1s on the damage and then have a level ability where they re-roll 2s as well. Instead of just adding more damage that is static. Players like to roll dice and not be disappointed when the dice suck.

Please no,

we have more than enough of rerolling mechanics.
i suggested simple +1 per die, as is it simple and does not slow down the game.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

all spells need to be redone, and fireball should NOT be better then other damage spells. Now the argument can be made to bring other spells up to that level, or bring it down. Same with Meteor Strike.

I also want hold and tasha laugh NERFed to heck... there is NO amount of damage is equal to "take a turn or more away from target" let alone "Take a turn away AND debuff target"

a 20th level wizard running into a non legendary 20th level threat can use a 1st level Tasha laugh spell to more effect then any damage spell. Heck since saves don't go up with level if facing a target with low save it may just knock them right out of the fight... compare that to any damage causing spell.

no 1st or 2nd level spell should be powerful enough to negate a threat like that