Making a Balanced Half-Dragon

[CyberSpyder]

^^-Half-ogre, half-dragons really have good synergy. I've seen quite a few of them posited, though not so many played...

if you compare a fighter(4) to a Half-Dragon(ECL +3)/Human Fighter(1), you should assume around a +3 Str bonus for the straight fighter, with a melee hit bonus of 7, vs the Half-dragon's melee hit bonus of 5 (+4 Str bonus). Two more levels and the fighter(6) has 9/4 vs 7/0 for the Half-Dragon...

You're joking, right? The half-dragon is getting +8 STR on top of whatever they would have otherwise, giving it a to-hit bonus of 8 (1 BAB and +7 STR, assuming the other guy had +3.) So it would be 1 more, as was said previously.

 

[Jurble]

Hi everyone, Im the player in Daniel's campaign who wants to play this Half Dragon.

In terms of the game The character in question is 17monk/3dragon (or basically Monk + whatever requirements we decide on for the half-dragon side). The character's RP has him slowly evolving into a half dragon due to a magical item + his draconic ancestory (if thats how u spell that word lol). RP wise post-game RP (20+ or Epic+ even though i doubt he will be taken epic) the story is he will eventually become a wyrmling and begin a new life as a silver dragon, the new protector of his people). The story is he's a member of a village which is protected by a silver dragon who is actually an ancestor to all who live there (like 7 generations or something). THe dragon dies, and everyone gets attacked/killed who knows but some unknown force (Daniel has it worked out but of course i have no idea) and the cahracter in question was sent to a monastery as a baby growing up there never knowing about his past except for the item he carries which will incite his change into a half-dragon.

So in game mechanics terms we were thinking over the space of 20 levels he would slowly aquire draconic traits slowly. In terms of the bloodlines as it says in there he'd slowly gain traits over levels and in terms of the 3 lvl template version he'd take levels at approx 5-10, 10-15 and 15-20 (one lvl in each of those areas). From what ive heard here 5+ should be ok but i tihnk it would probably be later, basically whichever is easier for Daniel/balancing in the game.

Abit confused since some think the 3 lvl template is overpowered while some think its underpowered? While the wings sounds like a nice added draconic trait the char would have to somehow become large for that to be possible but once again, a feature easily dropped if it effects the balance of the game. Im not interested in having an "uber char" but on the same note id like to avoid trying to claw to survive if you know what i mean. Anyway i thought id throw in abit more about the char in case that helps you guys see where we are coming from. tnx all for the great advice!

 

[mmu1]

Abit confused since some think the 3 lvl template is overpowered while some think its underpowered? While the wings sounds like a nice added draconic trait the char would have to somehow become large for that to be possible but once again, a feature easily dropped if it effects the balance of the game. Im not interested in having an "uber char" but on the same note id like to avoid trying to claw to survive if you know what i mean. Anyway i thought id throw in abit more about the char in case that helps you guys see where we are coming from. tnx all for the great advice!

There are two different things being talked about, here.

1. The half-dragon template that has an ECL of +3 and is in the Monster Manual - which has been posted on the WotC website made into a dragon "class" with three "levels", in order to make applying the template more gradual.

2. The dragon bloodline from Unearthed Arcana, which requires that you take levels in a "bloodline" class at certain points in exchange for some abilities scattered over a number of levels.

Now, I happen to think that, if you take the bloodline from UA, you'll be getting robbed blind - the abilities the bloodlines grant are not remotely worth giving up multiple character levels.

On the other hand, the standard Monster Manual half-dragon template (when applied over a number of levels, instead of all at once at lowe level) leads to a balanced character that's very good at certain things, but suffers in other areas. (BTW, if you're playing a monk, I have one suggestion - Improved Trip)

And I certainly wouldn't worry about wings... Flight with anything less than Good maneuverability is nice, but not great.

 

[Jurble]

ahhh ok. what do you mean the monster manual/3lvl class one suffers in some areas?

template seems very combat orientated to me hence im focusing the skills on other areas (diplomacy, sense motive, gather info) to give him usefulness in other areas and "round him out abit"

 

[mmu1]

ahhh ok. what do you mean the monster manual/3lvl class one suffers in some areas?

template seems very combat orientated to me hence im focusing the skills on other areas (diplomacy, sense motive, gather info) to give him usefulness in other areas and "round him out abit"

You get a great improvement in your melee combat ability, but you do lose three points of BAB, so ranged combat really suffers. (not very important to monks, but still). Because you lose BAB, your attack progression slows down - and you don't get the various "Improved Flurry of Blows" class abilities until later than a normal monk. (same goes for other monk class abilities) You'll likely have slightly fewer HP than a normal monk once you take all three levels of the "class" - at least for a while, until the fact you get +2 CON makes up for it as you go up in levels.

Which just means that it's balanced, not that you'll have to struggle to survive... With the STR boost and the Natural Armor, the half-dragon template is great for a monk.

 

[Scion]

Your SR will also be 3 points lower and you wont get empty body along with loseing out on 2 points to all three of your saves. Oh, and 10' less movement, one step less on damage, one point of AC (the natural armor makes up for this though, at least a good portion of the time), one feat, and an ability point. (oh, and the breaking point at level 20 for hp going one way or the other.. if you have +6 con mod or less then the dragon will have more hp, if you have +7 or more then the straight monk will have more hp.. Starting with a 14, +6 item, and +4 book puts you up to having more hp)

Definately sounds like a hard trade to make But, if it is worth it for the character for whatever reason, then go for it. There are benefits certainly, I just didnt list them here.

 

[Elephant]

In my D&D game, one of the other players cooked up a broken PrC for his Half-Orc Fighter as a replacement for Dragon Disciple (http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86849). I objected, so he got the DM's blessing to play a Half-Dragon instead, along with a variant of functional wings on a Medium base creature (human). Unfortunately, it looks like he, err, "house-ruled" a few things when he applied the template (HP 119 at ECL 9 - the RAW give him a max of 90 from 60 ftr 30 CON bonus).

So my experience with half-dragons is that they are horribly broken and ruin the game. Admittedly, this has more to do with munchkin-powergamer cheating than with the template/class, so YMMV. Err, YMPWV.

 

[rich]

^^-Half-ogre, half-dragons really have good synergy. I've seen quite a few of them posited, though not so many played...


You're joking, right? The half-dragon is getting +8 STR on top of whatever they would have otherwise, giving it a to-hit bonus of 8 (1 BAB and +7 STR, assuming the other guy had +3.) So it would be 1 more, as was said previously.

no, not joking -- just a complete mind blank I realized this much later...
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