Making a Dragon Disciple

[Krash]

Lol, just for fun I put this together....it seems to come out a lot better if you look at the basic stats I guess: sorry about the formatting lol

Class HP BAB Fort Ref Will Feat Extras
Cleric 5 0 2 0 2 xx Turn Undead
Cleric 5 1 1 0 1 4 lvl 0, 3 lvl 1
Monk 5 0 2 2 2 x unarmed attack, stun attack, deflect arrows
Monk 5 1 1 1 1 evasion
Fighter 6 1 2 x
Fighter 6 1 1 xx
Paladin 6 1 2 0 0 detect evil, divine grace, loh, divine health
Paladin 6 1 1 0 0 aura of courage, smite evil
Paladin 6 1 0 1 1
Paladin 6 1 1 0 0
Paladin 6 1 0 0 0 special mount
Paladin 6 1 1 1 1 remove disease 2/week
Paladin 6 1 0 0 0 1 lvl 1 spell

74 11 14 5 8
Stat mods 22 2 4 4 4
Totals 96 13 18 9 12

14str 14 dex 14 con 14 wis 10 int 14 cha

 

[Darklone]

Actually I like the bard idea. For style reasons.

Do talk with your DM about the size increase, if it gives another +8 to strength or not... the Sage ruled no, but a normal halfdragon with template would get it.

Paladin bard would be a bit weird due to alignment problems though...

 

[bret]

however the blackguard argument is a little silly if you ask me... just because a character has a mixed past does not mean they will become evil.

Quick review here:

• The character has already left one class with divine spells and now is pausing in his study of a second class.
• The character doesn't have an above-average wisdom. With a Wisdom of 10, he is more likely to do something foolish. If he were to stick it out, he would most likely find it aggrevating as he would not get access to some of the powers (a.k.a. spells) that others of the order have.
• Paladins with a lot more going for them that were trained from apprenticehood in the ways of the church have fallen and become blackguards.

Seems like sufficient reasons to worry to me.

Rather than train him, I think many clerics or paladins would advise him to continue further along their original path. Offer to help them, but discourage them from taking cleric or paladin levels.

Then again, I would have Wizards hesitate to teach a fighter spells if they only has an average Int. Takes a lot of investment to teach an apprentice, should concentrate on teaching those who have the aptitude.

 

[Darklone]

I don't see classes that singleminded... "A wizard won't teach a fighter spells cause he has no extraordinary INT..." How would he know? Does he check the DC of the fighters spells ?

Before this turns into a classless system rant...

To each his own class or not class or multiclass.

But I do agree that I don't like Barbarian fighter dwarves

 

[Zephyrus]

Wild Elf Fighter(4)/Sorcerer(1)/DragonDeciple(5) w/ Education, Weapon Specialization Great Axe, Power Lunge and Large-and-in-Charge, and a size Huge Greataxe.

They were doing in the realm of 2d8+12 damage each swing or about +15 with a power lunge.

Large-and-in-charge makes it so that its difficult to get into melee with them and then a simple 5ft step back makes it so that you get another AOO to keep the process going.

My spells were Shield and True-Strike. Combine a TrueStrike with a Power Attack and things got realy ugly. Okay hit them with ranged attacks, it charges you (thanks for boots of striding and leaping) and rings your bell one soundly for something in the department of about 2d8+20 or so if power attacking with a true-strike insuring accuracy.

to qoute that Gungan captain/general 'Ouch time'

 

[bret]

I don't see classes that singleminded... "A wizard won't teach a fighter spells cause he has no extraordinary INT..." How would he know? Does he check the DC of the fighters spells ?

Or maybe he talks to him a while, trys to teach him some new concepts and pays attention to how quickly they catch on.

Considering that someone with an Int of 10 can't even learn to cast first level spells, it really shouldn't be that tough.

Before this turns into a classless system rant...

To each his own class or not class or multiclass.

But I do agree that I don't like Barbarian fighter dwarves

Fair enough. Time to return to your regularly scheduled thread.


How worthwhile is it to get 2nd level spells (4th level sorcerer) before going Dragon Disciple? I've got to admit, one of the main things I was looking at was See Invisible.

What feats are 'gotta have' for a Dragon Disciple?

I was thinking Flyby (once you qualify) and the multi-attack one (sorry, forget it's name) so that you can better use the claw-claw-bite.

 

[Krash]

Do talk with your DM about the size increase, if it gives another +8 to strength or not... the Sage ruled no, but a normal halfdragon with template would get it.

I can't understand the whole issue about the size increase and the stat gains. From what I can see, half-dragons are not specifically larger than their regular counterparts, but dragon disciples are after taking level 5.

Even though the sage has ruled it, I feel that the stat bonuses from the increase in size AND the stats from the template should both stack.

 

[Lellindil]

it basically comes down to how a dm plays his NPC's, im sure the charcter can find someone to instruct him if he wants to learn. I also know the the minister at my church had lots of problems in his life before he came to god, he also had a variety of jobs... but was anyone like, im not going to teach you about christ because you used to be an alcohalic and a carpenter... i highly doubt it. but if bret was DMing im sure all his NPC's would have the same personality and say "no im not going to teach you that cause uh, we dont want anymore people to worship our god..." riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[Zephyrus]

Take a Size Medium Creature.... Advance it to Large and then Apply Half Dragon Template. assume he had something like a 14 Strenght. Not particularly bad. but once you give him +8 for the size transition and the +8 for the Template. that becomes a STR of 30. a Size Large Creature with more Strength than HALF of the Giants. Start that at a STR 18 instead of 14 and your stronger than 4 of the 6 Giants with a STR 34 after you add the size increase and template.

Hill Giant (Large) STR 25
Stone Giant (Large) STR 27
Frost Giant (large) STR 29
Fire Giant (Large) STR 31
Cloud Giant (Huge) STR 35
Storm Giant (Huge) 39

Those things in the table their I dont belive are ever intended for PC's. Its only intensed for monsters that are Advanced by Hit Dice and the Monster Manual says they got bigger as a reasult. Humans and Elves and stuff like that never 'Advance' into a larger size when they improve in Hit Dice. So a Half-Dragon is not 'transitioning' or 'advancing' from size medium to size large. They are just changing their 'Size-Type' gaining bonuses and penalties for BEING a creature that big. not transitioning into a creaturea that big.

Getting both the Tranitional +STR, CON, Natural Armor and -Dex as well as effectively the template is too powerful for a person to gain (or even a monster) without major changes to the creatures CR.

Its a Size Change. Not a size Advance.

 

[Krash]

Take a Size Medium Creature.... Advance it to Large and then Apply Half Dragon Template. assume he had something like a 14 Strenght. Not particularly bad. but once you give him +8 for the size transition and the +8 for the Template. that becomes a STR of 30. a Size Large Creature with more Strength than HALF of the Giants. Start that at a STR 18 instead of 14 and your stronger than 4 of the 6 Giants with a STR 34 after you add the size increase and template.

Hill Giant (Large) STR 25
Stone Giant (Large) STR 27
Frost Giant (large) STR 29
Fire Giant (Large) STR 31
Cloud Giant (Huge) STR 35
Storm Giant (Huge) 39

What you propose sounds fine in principle, but you state that he has 14 strength. The monster manual specificly states:

Advancement

This book lists only the weakest and most common version of each creature. The Advancement line shows how tough the creature can get, in terms of extra Hit Dice. (This is not an absolute limit, but exceptions are extremely rare.)

I take this to mean that comparing with an average human means the human in question has a strength of 10. Applying the increase in size modifiers and the increases due to the Dragon Disciple template will then give you a strength of 26, which is in line with the hill and stone giants and doesn't sound too implausable, after all you have dragons blood in you !