Making a gunslinger character

[Merky]

I've always been a fan of thematic (though sometimes suboptimal) builds, and for now I'm thinking of creating a gunner character for D&D 4e. I have an image reference: the Rebellion class from Ragnarok Online.

Before I start, just a list of things I'm hoping to achieve with the build:

• I'm looking at a gunner who duel-wields handguns. I don't need them to be actual guns per se; I'd prefer to reflavour hand crossbows or wands/rods as matchlock pistols (or even dual blades as gunblades, coupled with some way to use them as implements to shoot magical spells).
• Mechanics wise... I'm hoping the character can perform multiple attacks in one turn, ideally with some out-of-turn attacks too. Close bursts are great as well (for those who have played Ragnarok Online, I'd love to have something like the gunslinger's Desperado skill). There should be a solid reason to use two guns as well, such as Two-Fisted Shooter or Dual Implement Spellcaster, else there would be no reason for me to use two guns other than for flavour.
• I'd love the character to have some reason to move around the battlefield, rather than act as a static turret. I once played a wizard who was a little too good at hanging back, and round after round she'd lay down an enlarged Winged Horde and daze herself with her Wailing Tome. She was effective, but boring. A character built to skirmish would be very much appreciated.
• For the race, I'll prefer to have a human or anything that looks kinda like a human. Half-elves, elves, changelings and hengeyokai are all great as well. Eladrins are okay too.
• As for classes... almost anything goes. A martial character who uses natural agility to avoid attacks and shoot back, an arcane gunner who fires spells, a divine exorcist who executes demons... the list goes on and on. But personally I think primal classes might not be a good fit, since nature and guns don't really go together. I'm also not keen on assassins/executioners, since I'm not a fan of having all those poison and shadowy stuff going on for this character. Nonetheless, if there's a way to reflavour the shadow/primal power sources, I'm okay with them too.

I have a couple of ideas, but I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on the matter first

 

[Garthanos]

The movie equilibrium comes to mind , alah Gun Fu. A real area of effect minion clearing character that one.

Sword Mage Hybrid Wizard - might work for the mobility factor (reasons to keep moving), able to do close but also lay down the minion clearing barrages. Hmmmm making the flavor gun friendly...dual implement feat for your gun fu.. not the shielding sword mage since that one requires an open hand...

 

[Tony Vargas]

IIRC there were some build tricks that'd let you dual-wield hand crossbows, Ranger is the obvious martial class, lots of multi-attack exploits, though I think there was some sort of Rogue based hand-crossbow build, too...

Or you could pick an arcane striker class with a selection of powers & pair of implements you're comfortable re-skinning as arcane firearms.

 

[The Human Target]

Ranger, no doubt.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ranger certainly is the obvious one. There's feat support for it, magic hand crossbows that can be reloaded every round, etc. A dual implement warlock or something might be a bit more fun though. I guess you could go with some sort of ranger hybrid/MC too, though its hard to match that up with many casters. DIS is certainly a good enough reason to dual wield for pretty much any implement user in any case...

 

[Garthanos]

He wants a build that doesnt encourage stand there and shoot guys... so I suppose the skirmish build ranger might be ok.

 

[Merky]

Wow... thanks for all the responses I'm typing all this over lunch break in office with no access to my materials; do pardon me if I remembered some of the item/power/feat/feature/etc names wrongly.

The movie equilibrium comes to mind , alah Gun Fu. A real area of effect minion clearing character that one.

Sword Mage Hybrid Wizard - might work for the mobility factor (reasons to keep moving), able to do close but also lay down the minion clearing barrages. Hmmmm making the flavor gun friendly...dual implement feat for your gun fu.. not the shielding sword mage since that one requires an open hand...

Yup, Gun Fu is one of the things I'm looking at as well. A Swordmage/Wizard… I've only built a summoner swordmage/wizard before. Dual Implement Spellcaster is indeed a good reason to dual wield for any arcane class… I think I might be able to convince the DM that wrist razors don't take up a hand slot (technically enchanted wrist razors count as wrist slot items).

IIRC there were some build tricks that'd let you dual-wield hand crossbows, Ranger is the obvious martial class, lots of multi-attack exploits, though I think there was some sort of Rogue based hand-crossbow build, too...

Ranger, no doubt.

Ranger certainly is the obvious one. There's feat support for it, magic hand crossbows that can be reloaded every round, etc.

A pure Ranger with multiclassing is easier to pull off and mechanically less complex… at one point in time I was looking at a Monk/Rogue hybrid with Sharpshooter Talent, Two-Fisted Shooter, Twin Strike (through Dilettante), Five Storms (for the close burst attack and the shift 2), and then it was a bit too confusing for me after that. I ended up with a less questionable Ranger/Rogue hybrid (multiclassing Monk for ki focus proficiency and less magical weapons to upkeep), though it's easy to run out of out-of-turn and minor action attacks so I can't really make use of both striker damage features in the same round. And it's usually not a good idea to mix two strikers; I haven't gotten the hang of it yet.

I like the Running Attack feature that Rangers have. It gives less bonuses as compared to Sharpshooter Talent but I like how it needs me to keep moving. (Essentials Thief has something similar in Ambush Trick, though the lack of multiattacks and out-of-turn attacks turned me off.) Easy access to Disruptive Strike is fun too, as is a point-blank shot in Fading Strike. I'd probably multiclass Rogue for Two-Fisted Shooter, though I'm not sure how to crit fish with this build to make dual wielding worthwhile.

Or you could pick an arcane striker class with a selection of powers & pair of implements you're comfortable re-skinning as arcane firearms.

A dual implement warlock or something might be a bit more fun though. I guess you could go with some sort of ranger hybrid/MC too, though its hard to match that up with many casters. DIS is certainly a good enough reason to dual wield for pretty much any implement user in any case...

Dual Implement Spellcaster is indeed a nice reason to dual wield… just wondering if I could milk it even more. Some rods have fantastic passive abilities that makes them good as offhand rods too… other than that, maybe some wand wielding classes might appreciate an extra wand in the offhand.

Sadly the only crossbow wielding arcane class (i.e. Artificer) has no need for a second crossbow. I would really, really love to play a dual-wielding Artificer somehow.

He wants a build that doesnt encourage stand there and shoot guys... so I suppose the skirmish build ranger might be ok.

There's another practical reason for not picking a stand-and-shoot character: I'm potentially looking at a 3PC party, and the battle grid tends to be on the small side as well. Backliners will find themselves surrounded, so the ability to skirmish is important for survival. Warlocks and Rangers have an incentive to move through Shadow Walk and Running Attack respectively. A Swordmage/Wizard would be able to hold his ground in melee.


I'm trying to see if I can get divine characters to work with this concept… thus far it's not really working out. I thought it would be fun to try out an invoker, but I can't find a way for invokers to benefit from dual wielding. I'm also testing out a Dex/Wis Ranger/Cleric, mainly focused on being a striker but with some support and heals… sadly I'm familiar with neither class, and the concept itself doesn't seem to work.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, the old Eyebite Paladin (Paladin|Warlock, use eyebite plus paladin punishment) could kinda pass as a sort of 'gunslinger', but you still have the problem with it not really caring about dual wielding.

You're right though, there are a few implements that have 'offhand attributes' that mean its useful to carry them around, even if you don't actually attack with them.

 

[Marshall]

Drow (refluffed somehow) Thief dual wielding hand crossbows. The build is floating around out there and is near the tops of the dps charts. I played one to 20th and it's scary just how versatile and fun to play it is.

 

[Igwilly]

That's funny, because when I DM'ed 4e, I actually created guns for the game. Modern guns, that is. I would have to re-create them because they were too similar to already existing weapons, so no one was choosing them.
They are meant to be balanced against pre-existing weapons by throwing realism into Jupiter. The fact that they were balanced instead of blatantly more powerful may have contributed to their reception.
Anyway, it seems odd people talking about the ranger. In my mind, they are more related to two-handed guns like rifles or shotguns. Rogues would fit better with small guns - they even have that feat allowing dual-wielding hand crossbows. But right now I'm thinking more about class description and less about mechanics.

Honestly, before deciding which class is best for dual-wielding pistols, we need to know the actual mechanics behind pistols. Have you ever thought about that?