Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Nods, guns have myths too... and not always what one might expect (Watch A-Team, them heroes are hard to hit... ie hit points in modern land)
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Making a gunslinger character
- Thread starter Merky
- Start date
Nods, guns have myths too... and not always what one might expect (Watch A-Team, them heroes are hard to hit... ie hit points in modern land)
I think you didn't understand.
When I created them, many players got interested in using them; but after knowing my guns are balanced against "normal" weapons (bows, crossbows, swords...), nearly all of them gave up and used bows or swords or whatever.
I actually tried to make them more different, making changes on pistols, rifles, shotguns. It was at the beginning of my RPG experience, but the strongest feedback I got was "if it's not broken, I'm not going to use it". Some players, after many gaming days, got interested in pistols because I designed them to be better-wielded by Rogues. Still, it was just before that campaign ended T_T
Part of the blame is on the system: playing with few splatbooks, there were not a lot of ranged weapon classes.
I still make guns available in my games, with balance being a prime goal. I just try to make them more different from pre-existing weapons, making them feel "special". Guns are a big part on my setting so I need them. However, that experience was from quite some time ago: I don't DM for a long while, so I think reception should be different now.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Oh yes I understood, its the same reason people rejected balanced Wizards in 4e they had been conditioned to over powered and note the reason nobody is hit in A-team is a general convention of guns being either you are missed or you are out entirely.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Eh, another option would be to simply make them better. I mean, in a certain type of campaign, who cares? Then you can introduce fantastical guys that parry bullets and whatever to bring back any desired degree of parity.
You could also nerf bows somewhat. I mean, really 4e is extremely kind to crossbows. While some very weak crossbows might conceivably be reloaded in a 6-second melee round you could simply realistically justify that reloading them is purely a non-combat exercise unless its a hand crossbow, and even then it would be realistic to have it take a standard action at the very least. Guns might not reload any BETTER than that, but it depends on the grade of gun tech. Realistic 17th and 18th Century handguns could be roughly on a par with 4e's existing standard crossbows, which wouldn't be too unrealistic for later period handguns (IE multi-barrel pepperboxs and similar things that required some effort to fire more than once, but don't actually need reloading per-se, or even early single action revolvers).
A friend of mine tried to create some guns for our campaigns as well. Because he's familiar with Ragnarok Online, he had a similar range of guns: from small handguns (quick to reload like most ranged weapons, but weak and short-ranged) to rifles (that took a move action to reload) to what were essentially grenade launchers (IIRC the weapon damage die was set at 2d12 but it needed a standard action to reload). We didn't really get very far with them because of potential shenanigans; my gaming group had produced some rather *ahem* creative *ahem* character concepts like bugbear rangers wielding oversized greatbows.
Hahahahahaha, well...
4e is very kind with crossbows. It gets worse because with one minor action you reload your crossbow to multiple attacks in the same power. Recharging crossbows at lightspeed.
I could make guns overpowered depending on the tone I want. Providing magical protection against bullets or deflector shields could be nice, too.
But I aim at a different feel from gun-dominated. I want a Final Fantasy-like feel, where characters with wildly different styles working together. Yuna with the Tiny Bees, Cloud with his Buster Sword, Zidane with double-daggers, Cecil the Paladin, Lightning with her gunblade, Irvine, Sazh, Rydia, Vivi, etc, all while running around with chocobos, being chosen as the Warriors of Light. Sometimes I have trouble telling the difference between the franchises hahahaha.
I have made other weapons beyond modern guns.
Things should be different by now, to be honest. At that time, many players were both very power-hungry and very unskilled at actual power gaming. They are not like that anymore.
Anyway, my point is, there must be interest in guns, not in unfair mechanical advantages. But making them different is a must: special benefits and drawbacks make them look more attractive and interesting. The gaming world should have a reason to develop them instead of going with sword and bow ad eternum, after all. That requires some work, but it's not hard. The mechanics should be aimed at the right tone you want to the campaign. Of course, if everyone is ok with, you could make gun just reflauvored crossbows, but experience tells me that it isn't a good idea.
As with classes, since Rogues have mechanisms to dual-wielding hand-crossbows, that makes a good class for dual-wielding pistols. Rangers are more into two-handed weapons in the ranged sector; I cannot imagine a reason for them to choose pistols instead of rifles or muskets or whatever. Not going to stop anyone from doing that, if this is their choice; that's just my opinion.
4e is very kind with crossbows. It gets worse because with one minor action you reload your crossbow to multiple attacks in the same power. Recharging crossbows at lightspeed.
I could make guns overpowered depending on the tone I want. Providing magical protection against bullets or deflector shields could be nice, too.
But I aim at a different feel from gun-dominated. I want a Final Fantasy-like feel, where characters with wildly different styles working together. Yuna with the Tiny Bees, Cloud with his Buster Sword, Zidane with double-daggers, Cecil the Paladin, Lightning with her gunblade, Irvine, Sazh, Rydia, Vivi, etc, all while running around with chocobos, being chosen as the Warriors of Light. Sometimes I have trouble telling the difference between the franchises hahahaha.
I have made other weapons beyond modern guns.
Things should be different by now, to be honest. At that time, many players were both very power-hungry and very unskilled at actual power gaming. They are not like that anymore.
Anyway, my point is, there must be interest in guns, not in unfair mechanical advantages. But making them different is a must: special benefits and drawbacks make them look more attractive and interesting. The gaming world should have a reason to develop them instead of going with sword and bow ad eternum, after all. That requires some work, but it's not hard. The mechanics should be aimed at the right tone you want to the campaign. Of course, if everyone is ok with, you could make gun just reflauvored crossbows, but experience tells me that it isn't a good idea.
As with classes, since Rogues have mechanisms to dual-wielding hand-crossbows, that makes a good class for dual-wielding pistols. Rangers are more into two-handed weapons in the ranged sector; I cannot imagine a reason for them to choose pistols instead of rifles or muskets or whatever. Not going to stop anyone from doing that, if this is their choice; that's just my opinion.
Tony Vargas
Legend
Heh. In one Champions! game a character had "The A-Team Theme," when he played it, everyone (friend & foe alike) got + 8 DCV vs ranged killing attacks. In an entirely different, post-apocalyptic Hero game, there were guns, but they were just a bonus to your PRE attack, because they were legendary ancient weapons of terrifying power, but virtually never worked... though every once in a while...
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Fire is almost that kind of weapon historically the dragon roaring fire down on the brittish villages were ahem likely people out a viking. But as a weapon it creates so much collateral damage and isnt very good at killing people directly
One thing I think of when people talk "gun fu" is that the shooters are almost always in motion. Sometimes, they move even if staying under protective cover makes sense.
The Warlock's Shadow Walk power would really play into that. So would the Elf power Fey Step.
The Warlock's Shadow Walk power would really play into that. So would the Elf power Fey Step.
Similar Threads
