Making an acid elemental savant, is it not possible with Core?

[LordVyreth]

More accurately, with Core and Completely Arcane, at least at the minimum level. One of the requirements of the prestige class is that it has three acid spells to get the class, with one being 3rd level or higher. That's fine for fire and air elemental savants, what with fireball and lightning bolt. But as far as I can tell, there isn't a 3rd level acid spell. Am I missing one, or will I have to look for more books or resign myself to waiting to 7th level.

 

[frankthedm]

[IMaGer]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/spellcomp_gallery/92180.jpg[/IMaGer] Spell compendium has this...

Acid breath
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

You breathe forth a cone of acidic droplets. The cone deals 1d6 points of acid damage per caster level (maximum 10d6).

Material Component: A handful of fire ants (alive or dead).

TBH, I'd say the cone is too small. Bump the cone to 20' and make it Evocation. Or maybe drop the somatic component and leave the cone at 15'.

 

[Dross]

If using energy substitution makes a spell dexcriptor take on the type of energy converted to (fire to acid say):

Would changing the element of a spell from fire to acid for a fireball to an "acidball" via energy substitution meet the requirement?

Admittedly it isn't a spell in it's own right..........

 

[frankthedm]

And here is a diagram showing how cramped one has to get trolls in the amount shown in the example.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7176/trollacidrr0.png

 

[Brian Gibbons]

More accurately, with Core and Completely Arcane, at least at the minimum level. One of the requirements of the prestige class is that it has three acid spells to get the class, with one being 3rd level or higher.

The reason you can't qualify at 5th level is because you're adding in a requirement that isn't there.

Besides the skills, there are three requirements:
- You must have the Energy Substitution feat (for one of four elements)
- You must be able to cast three spells that have one of the four elements in common, one spell being 3rd level.
- You must have made peaceful contact with an elemental or outsider with an elemental subtype.

The energy type chosen for the Energy Substitution feat determines what type of Elemental Savant you are. It is not stated that the element used to meet the other two requirements need be the same.

As written, you can qualify to be an Earth Elemental Savant by taking Energy Substitution (Acid), being able to cast Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball, and having made peaceful contact with an Air Elemental.

 

[Arkhandus]

I find that interpretation questionable...... :\

Isn't there an Acid Orb spell of 3rd or 4th level in Complete Arcane or Spell Compendium? I can't remember.

Frank: Not really. Acid is much more useful than fire or electricity for attacks; it bypasses most Regeneration like fire does, it is FAR less common as a resistance or immunity on monsters, it loses less effectiveness against objects, and it's unlikely to be an energy type that opponents have cast Protection from/Resist Energy against.

The acid spells being slightly weaker or more limited than their fiery counterparts is quite sensible, since they're more likely to succeed at doing significant damage to almost any target (aside from the rare acid-resistant critters, which are far more rare than fire-resistant/immune ones, AFAIK). The range of Acid Breath's cone is reasonable IMO, and the picture of it certainly does show each of the 3 or 4 trolls being rather closely bunched-up (probably all hoping, before their untimely demise, to get in on the gnome-devouring action first).

 

[Arkhandus]

For reference, the 3.0 Elemental Savant had a rather clear list of entry requirements. Here's the section of it regarding Spells. Bolding emphasis mine.

Spells: Ability to cast at least three spells with one of the acid, cold, electricity, or fire descriptors and at least one summon spell. At least one of these spells must be 3rd level or higher. Alternatively, the character must be able to cast at least one spell of 3rd level or higher and have access to one of the following clerical domains: Air, Earth, Fire, or Water.

By the 3.0 version, you can qualify after 5th-level. The summon spell doesn't have to possess the related descriptor (it's separate, and anyway, the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells in 3.0 are incapable of having the Acid, Cold, or Electricity descriptors).

So you could learn Summon Monster III as the requisite 3rd-level spell prerequisite of Elemental Savant, along with two equal or lower-level spells of the appropriate energy descriptor. Such as Melf's Acid Arrow and Lesser Acid Orb, or Melf's Acid Arrow and Acid Splash (though Acid Splash wasn't in T&B nor the PHB for 3.0; it originated in Magic of Faerûn).


Magic of Faerûn has acid spells of 0-level, 1st, and 3rd (as well as 4th and higher; there aren't any 2nd-level ones in MoF, but there's still Acid Arrow in the PHB), so you might want to look there for more acid spells.

 

[Alchemist]

As written, you can qualify to be an Earth Elemental Savant by taking Energy Substitution (Acid), being able to cast Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball, and having made peaceful contact with an Air Elemental.

I'm also unimpressed with this interpretation. While it appears to follow the RAW, it certainly doesn't coincide with the spirit of the class. I would tell any player that tried to pull that kind of stunt to think about what the spirit of the requirements are, and then enforce those spirits by DM fiat.

Of course, I only game with reasonable people, so we wouldn't have that conversation in the first place.

 

[Brian Gibbons]

I'm also unimpressed with this interpretation. While it appears to follow the RAW, it certainly doesn't coincide with the spirit of the class. I would tell any player that tried to pull that kind of stunt to think about what the spirit of the requirements are, and then enforce those spirits by DM fiat.

I tend to think that being able to cast those spells (Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball) as acid spells through the Energy Substitution feat qualifies by the letter of the rules (since the feat specifies that the spell's descriptor changes). However, since the poster wasn't using that interpretation, I'm just as fine saying that the letter of the rules allows for three spells of any one energy type, not just the desired type.

In any event, since a wizard planning on becoming an Elemental Savant is likely to have been using Energy Substitution to cast those as acid spells anyway, I have no problem with the spirit of the rules.

 

[Wik]

I tend to think that being able to cast those spells (Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball) as acid spells through the Energy Substitution feat qualifies by the letter of the rules (since the feat specifies that the spell's descriptor changes). However, since the poster wasn't using that interpretation, I'm just as fine saying that the letter of the rules allows for three spells of any one energy type, not just the desired type.

In any event, since a wizard planning on becoming an Elemental Savant is likely to have been using Energy Substitution to cast those as acid spells anyway, I have no problem with the spirit of the rules.

qft