Making each ability score count (Ideas)

[mkill]

Thanks for everybody's input so far! I thought about the matter again and here is what I came up with.

Goal: Allow each PC to use whatever stat he likes for melee attacks, but explain it in the game in a flavorful and believable way.

So here we are:

Combat Styles

At first level, pick a combat style. Your class preselects one combat style by default, but you can switch to a different one if you like. (I believe that "default that you can trade away" will be a common design element in 5E)

Each combat style consists of a stat to use for melee attacks and two other goodies (some of the styles below have more... this is just for design ideas, it would have to be reduced to two). You can spend a feat to gain a second combat style.

Muscle
You swing your weapon with the raw strength of your muscles. You are most effective with a heavy weapon that crushes bones wherever it connects.

* Strength for melee attacks
* +2 to damage when fighting with two-handed weapons
* Push extra square with shield rush
* Knock enemy prone on critical hit
* Default for: Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin

Agile
You're a master of slender, agile weapons, and fancy footwork. With uncanny precision, you strike the enemy where he is most vulnerable.

* Dexterity for melee attacks
* +2 to AC against opportunity attacks
* no attack penalty for fighting prone
* +Dex to damage on critical hit with piercing weapon
* Default for: Rogue

Archer
Your specialty is ranged weapons, but you can draw a blade quickly when enemies come too close.

* Dexterity for melee attacks
* +2 to AC against opportunity attacks provoked by ranged attacks
* switch between melee and ranged weapon as part of attack action
* On a critical hit with a melee action, get a free shift
* Default for: Ranger

Endurance
Blow by blow, you wear your enemy down. When he can't hold his defenses up anymore, you strike him down.

* Constitution for melee attacks
* Use second wind as minor action / gain second second wind
* No ability check penalty / no speed penalty for wearing heavy armor
(Note: details of this one depend on the second wind mechanics and dwarven racial features of 5E)

Tactical
You fight with your smarts. You have studied the old fencing masters from leathery tomes, and know the difference between Giordano's Riposte and the Green Dragon Counter.

* Intelligence for melee attacks
* Give +Int bonus to damage with aid another
* Gain flanking bonus when adjacent to enemy together with ally,
regardless of exact square
* On a critical hit, enemy grants combat advantage to everyone for one turn
* Default for: Warlord

Arcane
Your Wizard training included strict lessons on staff fencing and combat casting.

* Intelligence for melee attacks
* Intelligence save to avoid opportunity attacks when spellcasting
* On a critical hit with a melee attack, use an arcane attack feat on the target as a free action.
* Default for: Wizard

Mystic
Years of training in a monastery have heightened your senses and sharpened your body.

* Wisdom for melee attacks
* Wisdom save against grappling
* Ignore concealment with melee attacks
* On a critical hit, stun the enemy for 1 round
* Default for: Monk

Veteran
You might be new to adventuring, but you've seen battle before. You've fought all your short life, and there is hardly any trick you haven't seen.

* Wisdom for melee attacks
* Does not grant combat advantage to flanking enemies
* Always act in surprise round
* On a critical hit, add your Wisdom modifier to damage

Dashing
You are a swordsman extraordinaire. You know that it's not enough to just be the best, you have to make your enemy feel it. If you can display confidence, your enemy has lost the battle before it started.

* Charisma for melee attacks
* Feint as move action
* Charisma save to defend against feints
* On a critical hit, your enemy takes a penalty on his next attack against you equal to your Charisma bonus
* Default for: Bard

 

[Hassassin]

Melee weapon: Str vs AC. Str damage
Light weapon: Dex vs AC. Dex damage
Projectile weapon: Dex vs AC. Dex damage
Thrown weapon: Dex vs AC. Str damage
Feint: Int vs AC: Str damage
Smite: Cha vs AC. Cha damage
Sneak Attack: Dex vs AC. Int damage + Sneak Attack Damage
Cantrip: Int vs Touch AC (10+Dex mod)
Ray spell: Dex vs Touch AC

I would like to see all attacks use two abilities: one to hit and the other to damage. For example:

Melee: Dex vs. AC, Str to damage
Light: Dex vs. AC, Int to damage
Projectile: Dex vs. AC, Int to damage
Thrown: Dex vs. AC, Str to damage
Ray: Dex vs. AC, Int/Cha to damage
...

Looks like always Dex to hit, but Str, Int or [spellcasting ability] to damage. Maybe not a good idea after all.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I like the fighting styles, but can´t give you xp!

 

[Knight Templar]

Depends on where you hit them. Slicing an artery doesn't take much strength.

Arteries tend to be well protected by layers of steel for humanoids or thick skin for monsters. Exactly how much good would those little cuts do against a rhino?

 

[Essenti]

Arteries tend to be well protected by layers of steel for humanoids or thick skin for monsters. Exactly how much good would those little cuts do against a rhino?

I fully agree you that strength is generally useful in combat, and especially useful for getting through armor if you absolutely must. But strength isn't the end all be all of what it takes to succeed in combat. For instance, blinding an angry Rhino would likely be a better path to defeating the beast than trying to hack through its tough hide. Using intelligent and accurate strikes on exposed points in armor can potentially take an armored enemy down faster than trying to muscle through it.

I am not arguing that strength is not a factor, but that it is not the only factor.

 

[Knight Templar]

I fully agree you that strength is generally useful in combat, and especially useful for getting through armor if you absolutely must. But strength isn't the end all be all of what it takes to succeed in combat. For instance, blinding an angry Rhino would likely be a better path to defeating the beast than trying to hack through its tough hide. Using intelligent and accurate strikes on exposed points in armor can potentially take an armored enemy down faster than trying to muscle through it.

I am not arguing that strength is not a factor, but that it is not the only factor.

That's why I favor dexterity bonuses to attack rolls for most weapons and strength bonuses to damage. That's the way I've run it in 3e, finesse weapons and weapons designated as "versatile" (longswords, scimatars, etc) use dexterity as the default ability for attack rolls.

 

[Sunseeker]

That's why I favor dexterity bonuses to attack rolls for most weapons and strength bonuses to damage. That's the way I've run it in 3e, finesse weapons and weapons designated as "versatile" (longswords, scimatars, etc) use dexterity as the default ability for attack rolls.

The problem with X stat for hit and Z stat for damage is that some classes simply don't work on this concept, which ends up gimping the melee because of their heavy reliance on it.

EX: Prior to 4e's "everyone uses their main stat" design casters of almost every sort are the min/max type. While other stats benefit them in the same ways they do everyone else, there is no direct correlation to their ability to hit and deal damage, in fact their damage is often entirely divorced from their stats!(a flawed system IMO). Sure, I get a FEW(2-4) bonus spells per slot through secondary stats, but I'm already heavily loaded on these to begin with.

A melee character doesn't gain any utility with their secondary stat except a small bonus to each hit(1-2 points per 4-6 levels).

EX: if I'm a fighter using a two-stat system, I need good dex to hit and good str to deal damage. I also need high con to live(since I'm in the fray as opposed to those who stand back). Assuming I HAVE 3 good scores, we're looking at gutting my ability to do anything else in the game, not to mention reducing my skills as well.

The two-stat system basically pigeon-holes melee classes into being nothing but weapons with faces, and while some people enjoy that, I find that being limited to being a sword with a face is a dull experience. Not to mention how this affects melee-hybrid classes such as Paladins and Clerics who depend on a 3rd good stat for casting.

That's the benefit to the one-stat system, it leave more room for customization and well-rounding(both mechnically and role-playing) of your character.

 

[Izumi]

I would like to see all attacks use two abilities: one to hit and the other to damage. For example:

Melee: Dex vs. AC, Str to damage
Light: Dex vs. AC, Int to damage
Projectile: Dex vs. AC, Int to damage
Thrown: Dex vs. AC, Str to damage
Ray: Dex vs. AC, Int/Cha to damage
...
Looks like always Dex to hit, but Str, Int or [spellcasting ability] to damage. Maybe not a good idea after all.

It's not a bad idea at all. How about something like this?

STR + CON/2 affects HP Bonus, Paralysis, & Constriction Saving Throws.
STR + CHA/2 affects Melee Attack & Melee Damage Bonus.
CON + CHA/2 affects System Shock, Disease, Energy Drain, & Poison Saving Throws
DEX + INT/2 affects Breath Weapons & Traps Saving Throws.
DEX + WIS/2 affects Melee Attack Bonus & Ranged Attack Bonus.
WIS + INT/2 affects Spells/Illusions, Confusion/Daze Attacks, Petrification/Polymorph, Charm/Fear Saving Throws.
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Modifiers
17-18 +2[/FONT]
15-16 +1
9-14 +0
6-8 -1
3-5 -2