Making the Warmage useable

[Theocrat]

Hi all-
I've read here and on other boards that the Warmage core class from the Miniatures Handbook is grossly underpowered.
I'm starting a new Military based campaign next week, and all PC's are required to take levels in Soldier (a variant of the Legionnaire class from AEG's Merc), at their lesiure as well as at levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, & 20. Because of this, I would like to have Sorcerers, Wizards and other arcane spell casters take levels in Warmage. But from what I'm reading it looks like maybe having the take levels in Myrmiddon from AEG's Mercenaries would be a better alternative.
Instead of that, how do I (or we on the boards) fix the Warmage class. Not making it overpowered, but making it a worthwhile class to take, as it seems now, all you get is the ability to wear armor with a limited spell list.

So what suggestions do you have?
Thanks-

 

[Scion]

what do you find underpowered about the warmage?

I guess allowing their armorer mage ability to work with any arcane casting would be a good start.

Giving them more advanced learning, more sudden metamagic and sooner, and a familiar at leve 4 (so they have a familiar at their level -3).

Other than that though, I'll need to know why you think he is so underpowered

 

[Theocrat]

Changing my mind!

Hi all-
Now that I'm looking at the Warmage with a refocused eye, I think there are some things that they get that might make it alright with just a minimum adjustment.
They know simple weapons, but not martial and think that should be adjusted. They can cast spells in light armor (and medium armor at 8th leve) with no spell failure. In comparing the Myrmidon (AEG Merc) and the War Mage, the Myrmidon has martial and medium armor and no somatic componets and less spells. The WM has more spells, simple and light armor and somatic components. They also get more special abilities. Ok, so I'm thinking that they are an ok class. If I gave them martial weapons that would be a bonus. This would help with thier d6 HP vs d8 for the Myrmidon - although they then might be induced to join the fray.

I don't think a familliar is a good place for a battle field or the barracks, so I don't think that is a good ability.
Wow, so maybe I made a hasty mistake and took many of the other members of the message boards ideas about the WM being an underpowered class.

 

[Awakened]

A player of mine recently took Warmage for a couple reasons that almost made the class seem OVERPOWERED- with levels in wizards, the level in warmage vastly improved his proficiencies and his 20 in Intelligence enhances all spells damage by +5. Also, he is now qualified for dragon disciple because of it.
The part of the class that stirs controversy is the whole 'add int bonus to damage' thing. Does it apply only to warmage spells? It doesn't say. If I were allow the interpretation to enhance this 9th level wizards spells, he might be overpowered, as his previously gained fireballs/ice storms/etc would be superpowered. I'd definitely recommend figuring out how you will interpret this special ability before beefing up the class.

 

[Scion]

Adding, effectively, one die of damage is overpowered?

At low levels it makes some spells much more potent, which is needed to keep this guy alive at all.

At higher levels, for most spells, it barely changes the damage at all. Effectively it is one more die.

What is the big deal exactly? Adding 5 damage (or even up to 10 damage) to a meteor swarm is barely going to effect it at all.

Plus, the character is one level behind in casting of his wizard spells to pay for it. So that fireball when he is casting it at 9th level or below does about the same damage anyway.

 

[Scharlata]

Hi!

Do we forget about the hit points (d6) ?

What about the Advanced Learning complemented Spell List so far?

Cantrips

Acid Splash
Dancing Lights
Disrupt Undead
Flare
Light
Ray of Frost

1st Level

Acid Orb, Lesser MH
Burning Hands
Chill Touch
Cold Orb, Lesser MH
Darklight BoVD
Electric Orb, Lesser MH
Fire Orb, Lesser MH
Guiding Light MH
Lantern Light BoED
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Sleep
Sonic Orb, Lesser MH
Tenser's Floating Disk
True Strike

2nd Level

Bigby's Slapping Hand MH
Blades of Fire MH
Continual Flame
Darkbolt BoVD
Darkness
Fireburst MH
Fire Trap
Flaming Sphere
Gust of Wind
Melf's Acid Arrow
Pyrotechnics
Scorching Ray
Shatter
Veil of Shadow MH

3rd Level

Chamber MoP
Daylight
Dread Word BoVD
Fireball
Fire Shield
Flame Arrow
Gust of Wind
Ice Storm
Leomund's Tiny Hut
Lightning Bolt
Poison
Ring of Blades MH
Sleet Storm
Stars of Arvandor BoED
Stinking Cloud
Vile Lance BoVD
Wind Wall

4th Level

Blast of Flame MH
Celestial Brilliance BoED
Contagion
Damning Darkness BoVD
Dancing Web BoED
Evard's Black Tentacles
Mirror Sending BoVD
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Phantasmal Killer
Radiant Shield BoED
Shout
Wall of Fire
Wall of Ice

5th Level

Arc of Lightning MH
Bigby's Interpos. Hand
Cloudkill
Cone of Cold
Emerald Burst BoED
Fireburst, Greater MH
Fire Shield, Legion's MH
Flame Strike
Sending
Wall of Force

6th Level

Acid Fog
Bigby's Forceful Hand
Blade Barrier
Chain Lightning
Circle of Death
Contingency
Disintegrate
Fire Seeds
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
Tenser's Transformation

7th Level

Amber Sarcophagus BoED
Bigby's Grasping Hand
Delayed Blast Fireball
Earthquake
Finger of Death
Fire Storm
Forcecage
Mord. Sword
Prismatic Spray
Reality Maelstrom MoP
Sunbeam
Waves of Exhaustion
Whirlwind of Teeth BoVD

8th Level

Bigby's Clenched Fist
Horrid Wilting
Incendiary Cloud
Oti. Telekinetic Sphere
Polar Ray
Polymorph any Object
Prismatic Wall
Scitillating Pattern
Shout, Greater
Sunburst

9th Level

Bigby's Crushing Hand
Crushing Fist of Spite BoVD
Elemental Swarm
Implosion
Meteor Swarm
Prismatic Sphere
Wail of the Banshee
Weird


Kind regards

P.S.: Complete Arcane is lurking somewhere ..........

 

[tensen]

Well for the particular campaign you are talking about.. lack of martial weapons shouldn't be a problem, since they'll have the soldier class to balance.

Note that at higher levels you can pretty much emulate the Warmage with more versatility by talking a Fighter/Sorceror and then going to the SpellSword prestige class. But emulating the class doesn't make it weak.

The only thing I'd change on the class is:
For the Advantage spell, allow it to be any type of spell... this allows the Warmage to try something that isn't necessarily pure combat... but may have a combat advantage.
Make sure if the Warmage choses the Martial Weapon Feat, you allow them the Broad Class. (Just seems right, that if they chose to work on any weapons.. these worked on a few.. and not just one.)

Note... is some circumstance the Warmage gets cut out of a few options of Prestige Classes that a Fighter/Sorceror would have access to. As a GM I would probably tweak the prerequisite for those... but some GMs might see the value of that.

 

[Theocrat]

Adjustments

Hi all-
Wow, thanks for the thoughtful input.
I'm having the Warmage be the required class that Wiz/Sorc take instead of the Soldier class. I think that giving them the martial weapon feat as part of the weapons and armor helps. With light armor and a longsword, at d6 HP, I doubt they'll be front line fighters, but they are intended to be able to make that attack if needed or required.

I think that any additional bonus damage dice to a spell would have to be granted only to the spells that the Warmage knows. As a wiz/wm his wiz spells wouldn't have that bonus, as they get a better selection.

I like the additional spell list - but from my reading of the WM in the Mhb, it looks like the WM knows all the spells on his spell list - but is only able to cast a certain amount of spellls. Or am I reading that incorrecty. With the wizard, they know a certain amount of spells - however many they have in their book, but can only cast X amount of them. With the Sorc, he knows the number of spells on table 3-17 in the PHB (pg 54). With the Warmage, he knows all the spells in his spell list, but can only cast a certain amount of them per day. Am I understanding that right?
If so, adding more spells from other books (which I've always wondered how do you something like that when new/other books come out) would make them much more powerful. Do you then remove a couple of spells from their list to make room - like they can only have (lets just say) 10 spells per level on their list? (1st has 11, 2nd 9).

Which brings me to my next question, for Scharlata whom added several spells to their list from the Mhb. You added Bigby's Slapping Hand among others, but I've always found it difficult add spells from a book in which the class is from or the PHB, which weren't given to that class. Yes, some of them do look like appropriate spells, but what is/was your critiera for adding them? Just evocation? Or something else or in addition.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate this. I'm not in favor of making a class more powerful unless I feel it needs some adjustment. I think the WM seems to fit very well in comparison with other classes after my initial ~maybe~ hasty judgement, with a minor tweak here and there.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

How does the Warmage compare to the "Battle Sorcerer" proposed variant in UA?

I was thinking of trying the Warmage after Zako (see sig) died yesterday (but got raised), and he sounds OK. IMO, not much different from a Boom-Sorcerer or an Evoker...

AR

 

[Theocrat]

How does the Warmage compare to the "Battle Sorcerer" proposed variant in UA?

I don't have UA, other than a couple of the PDF's that were avaliable and as such don't use it. Warmage is similar to the Myrmidon (which needs a better name) in AEG's Mercenaries, but after further review I'd say the WM is a better class - lower HP, but better/more spells. With giving the WM martial weapon prof. it's somewhat comparable. The Myrmidon wears up to med. armor, which the WM doesn't get until 8th level. The Myrmidon doesn't have to worry about somatic componets (iirc), or spell failure - while the WM doesn't have spell failure. But both are better than the Hex Fighter (whatever he's called) in Complete Warrior.