Making Vancian Casting More "Linear" and Less "Quadratic"

[YRUSirius]

Sounds like healing surges for wizards. No thanks.

These are no healing surges. This is effectively changing the 15 minute workday into the 15 minute workshift. 4 old adventuring days condensed into 1 new adventuring day. Balance the spells appropriately.



Sometimes I don't get you people. You ask for ressource management, I present a way for ressource management and then the complaint is that the presented method resembles a ressource management method...

-YRUSirius

 

[Janaxstrus]

These are no healing surges. This is effectively changing the 15 minute workday into the 15 minute workshift. 4 old adventuring days condensed into 1 new adventuring day. Balance the spells appropriately.



Sometimes I don't get you people. You ask for ressource management, I present a way for ressource management and then the complaint is that the presented method resembles a ressource management method...

-YRUSirius

I've never had a problem with the 15 minute workday, either as a player or DM, and I've been playing for almost 30 years. As such, I don't need a solution for it.

Currently in one campaign, we are on level 3 (30+ rooms) of a dungeon after 2 rests. Had we rested after each battle (as hyperbole on the internet would have one believe is universal), we'd be on the first level still, about halfway through.

 

[YRUSirius]

Then you won't have any problems with the 15 minute workshift too.

-YRUSirius

 

[Janaxstrus]

Then you won't have any problems with the 15 minute workshift too.

-YRUSirius

As long as it comes in a 4e module, no I won't. I just won't purchase it.
I will have a problem if it's assumed in core.

 

[YRUSirius]

Why?

-YRUSirius

 

[Janaxstrus]

Why?

-YRUSirius

Because that isn't the kind of game I want to play, where it's assumed you can rest and recover your spells 4 times a day.

I want to play and DM a game where you plan ahead and memorize your spells, like the Vancian system always has been.

 

[concjo]

So, if everyone is essentially at full HP and such all the time with only 15 mins of rest, you essentially have to make all encounters harder. If they always have a haste, fly, fireball, righteious might, healing, etc. then I no longer get to wear them down with encounters that are fun for them to hack through and must make more of them potentially deadly.

Also, it messes with my timeline if I want to impart a sense of urgency and get the PCs to push on at their own peril. It basically makes it so they can always push on regardless of resources, fights are always full powered and makes one shot or charged magic items nearly useless. Also, duration of spells hardly matters because in 15 minutes, you're all back up to full and can cast everything again.

all of that = TERRIBLE

 

[YRUSirius]

I want to play and DM a game where you plan ahead and memorize your spells, like the Vancian system always has been.

But you DO plan ahead and memorize your spells. You DO have to manage your 'rest' ressources. You can't just spend your 4 rests per day just willy nilly just to memorize one knock spell if you encounter a locked door. This is the whole difference between 4E and this proposed system.

Btw, this here is from a leaked D&D playtest report:

"Ohh, resting. You get 4 rests per day; 2 short 10-minute ones, a 1-hour one, and an 8-hour one. 10-minutes give you back your level in HP, the 1-hour lets you get back 1/2 your hp OR re-prep some spells (one or the other, caster-bitches!), while an 8-hour gives you back both 1/2 HP and all your spells. There were no healing surges in sight."

So, if everyone is essentially at full HP and such all the time with only 15 mins of rest, you essentially have to make all encounters harder. If they always have a haste, fly, fireball, righteious might, healing, etc. then I no longer get to wear them down with encounters that are fun for them to hack through and must make more of them potentially deadly.

You miss an important aspect! You shouldn't breeze through your 4 rests per day, and no, you aren't at full HP after a short rest (who said that anyways? ). They could have ALL their spells only 4 times a day. But they could have LOTS of battles between their short rest that would drain their ressources (spells, hitpoints). Then if they are getting near ground zero they rest. But they don't rest for the whole night, no, they just rest for 15 minutes, but they won't be able to rest more than 4 times per day this way. The fifth short rest would do nothing.

-YRUSirius

 

[Janaxstrus]

But you DO plan ahead and memorize your spells. You DO have to manage your 'rest' ressources. You can't just spend your 4 rests per day just willy nilly just to memorize one knock spell if you encounter a locked door. This is the whole difference between 4E and this proposed system.

Btw, this here is from a leaked D&D playtest report:

so...just like healing surges. A "resource" to manage. When you are out of rests, you are done for the day, just like in 4e you are done when you are low on healing surges. Not interested.

You miss an important aspect! You shouldn't breeze through your 4 rests per day, and no, you aren't at full HP after a short rest (who said that anyways? ). They could have ALL their spells only 4 times a day. But they could have LOTS of battles between their short rest that would drain their ressources (spells, hitpoints). Then if they are getting near ground zero they rest. But they don't rest for the whole night, no, they just rest for 15 minutes, but they won't be able to rest more than 4 times per day this way. The fifth short rest would do nothing.

-YRUSirius

Ok, so if I'm playing a game that is actually heavy on role playing, and not just combat and only intend to have 2 or 3 FIGHTS all day, I have to make them insane, because they will be completely full when they hit those 2 or 3 fights.
Contrary to the tactical nature of some games, MANY people do have roleplaying encounters, where no spells will be used.
So I now need to plan for 10-12 encounters a day, instead of the 3-4 I want to have.

Again, no thanks.

 

[YRUSirius]

That sounds to me more like having everything you want to do at any time, only 5 minutes away. Not managing your resources, planning ahead etc.

so...just like healing surges. A "resource" to manage. When you are out of rests, you are done for the day, just like in 4e you are done when you are low on healing surges. Not interested.

Make up your mind.

Ok, so if I'm playing a game that is actually heavy on role playing, and not just combat and only intend to have 2 or 3 FIGHTS all day, I have to make them insane, because they will be completely full when they hit those 2 or 3 fights.

And this is a problem?



-YRUSirius