male playing female PC

Wow! What a lot of text people have generated in the five short hours I have been away from my computer.

First of all, I want to commend Kahuna Burger for some very insightful posts. Well done! In particular, I'm very impressed with her additional contribution to explaining why I have observed women being more proficient and playing men than vice-versa. I suppose it does make sense that everyone who is not a heterosexual white male will have an easier time slipping into that role than straight white males have slipping into the role of another identifyable group -- the vastly disproportionate over-representation of the straight white male point of view in literature, both fiction and non-fiction. I find this analysis immediately compelling and largely indisputable.

That stated, I don't feel that this observation invalidates my view that men's motivations are less complex than women's or that women are socialized to be more observant of the motivations of others than men are.

I'm therefore a little disappointed by her subsequent descent into sophistry regarding my observations about female height and strength.

I'm also impressed by seasong's posts; I'm glad to see that someone who doesn't share my particular ideology of gaming on this issue is giving similar advice in response to lokiqc's original post.

I think seasong is quite correct to state that my third piece of advice -- don't play out romance or sex in your game -- applies equally to male characters as to females. As a DM, I don't think romance and sexuality have a place in my games. It's just my experience that gender-bending male players are much more likely than the average player to want to do this; therefore, I thought it important to include this as one of my guidelines for men who insist on playing female characters.

Although I won't respond to all of Oni's post, including the lengthy mental acrobatics in the section on how my house rule discriminates against female players, I will take a shot at answering her question about why I've had more success running female NPCs than female PCs.

I guess it's a question of being "on" all the time. When I run a female NPC, the scope of the NPC's role is circumscribed by the plot I design. I am therefore able to plan-out and consider the NPC's possible reactions to most of the situations in which she will find herself. I obviously don't have that luxury when I run a female PC -- I have to be capable of improvising her reactions to a much wider range of events and situations. I think the enormity of such a task is a little too much for me.

Although I don't particularly wish to continue the flames with Lazarus, I must say that I'm surprised that he thinks, based on my posts, that I view males as insipid. I apologize for thinking he was misinterpreting the dictionary when in fact he was just misinterpreting my posts even more than I had previously imagined.

Finally, I have been corrected by a number of people on my 6th piece of advice. Because I have been very fortunate my whole life to have had friends of all ages, I irrationally assumed that others have my facility with understanding people much older. Looking back, I realize it is pretty abnormal that my closest friend in 1993-94 was 40 years older than me or that my closest friend in 1999-2000 was 25 years older. That stated, I do think the crone archetype is a much better archetype on which to base a character than the slut and virgin archetypes that other posters have sensibly identified as problematic.
 

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Fusangite, I'm curious about something. Would you allow a homosexual person to play someone of the other gender, since they are generally a little closer to having the mental outlook of the other sex (though not completely)?

Or what about someone who had RL Gender Identity Issues?
 

Sixchan asks:

Fusangite, I'm curious about something. Would you allow a homosexual person to play someone of the other gender, since they are generally a little closer to having the mental outlook of the other sex (though not completely)?

Or what about someone who had RL Gender Identity Issues?

I don't think a person's sexual orientation would be a factor in the implementation of my house rule. And frankly, I think your characterization of gay people is quite inaccurate. My longest-term gaming associate is gay (I've been gaming with him since 1987) and I am currently running a campaign with two gay players. In my experience, the gay men I've gamed with are the last people who would want to play female characters. But certainly, I don't think any of the gay male players I've worked with over the past 20 years are in any way more qualified to play women than any other male players I have worked with.

As to the question of transgendered individuals playing people of the gender they're in the process of switching to, I think it would be terribly rude to deny them. Such people are looking for support in adopting their new identity and if I were friends with such a person, I cannot imagine myself being anything other than supportive in what I imagine must be an extremely difficult process.
 

fusangite said:
That stated, I don't feel that this observation invalidates my view that men's motivations are less complex than women's or that women are socialized to be more observant of the motivations of others than men are.
I think the issue is more with the fact that your post seemed to present this as a universal truth, applying equally to all men and women, than with the idea that there might be a tendency one way or the other for one gender or the other.

My own players tend to defy most of the conventions you stated, for example - I've got a perceptive woman, a woman who could almost blend into a frat party (in terms of perception and emoting), a man who is pretty guy-ish, and a man who is the epitome of "sensitive". Oddly enough, it's the straight guy who's the "sensitive" :).

I'm fairly certain you didn't mean it as a universal truth - but the topic is a touchy one, and your commentary is often provocative in its phrasing :).
I'm also impressed by seasong's posts; I'm glad to see that someone who doesn't share my particular ideology of gaming on this issue is giving similar advice in response to lokiqc's original post.
*shrug* The original post didn't ask me how my group games. If it had, I might have had some very different things to say :D.
That stated, I do think the crone archetype is a much better archetype on which to base a character than the slut and virgin archetypes that other posters have sensibly identified as problematic.
Oh, personally, I love the crone archetype (and the bad old man :)), but I've seen both butchered more than just about anything else.
 

[Disclaimer: Some people may find post inflammatory. It is not meant to be. Please do not flame, and if you do, please give warning...]

Y'know, I feel deeply sorry for fusangite...

He must have been burned pretty bad in some previous games to be such a hardliner. If he's still playing with the same group, I feel doubly sorry for him. One of his groups, somewhere in his dark past, must have really sucked.

Truly, is he not rather deserving of our pity, than our flames?
:p


Seriously though, I don't understand his argument that the female psychology is so alien to the male psyche? I mean, it is different, but as some poster (was it Kahuna Burger, mayhaps?) said previously, a character is more than just his/her gender. A character is a combination of his/her culture, upbringing, and personality.

I think fusangite's problem is that he's making HUGE generalizations, ie, all women have basically the same motivations and thought processes, ditto for all men. Plus his assumption that men are inherently simpler than women, thus, a man finds it impossible to RP a woman "correctly" because the female psyche is such a complex, alien thing to him. Plus he's basically telling all roleplayers everywhere the Right Thing To Do. Me, I think he's either got a real bad group, or some serious issues with the opposite sex.

As for the question of the original poster, Go ahead, let the guy play a woman. I can see how it might be freaky, what with the beard and all, but still...

Just my ramblings. My arguments probably have holes the size of Texas in them, but there they are. Feel free to pick them apart and otherwise abuse them to your heart's content...:D
 

Sixchan said:
Fusangite, I'm curious about something. Would you allow a homosexual person to play someone of the other gender, since they are generally a little closer to having the mental outlook of the other sex (though not completely)?
Heh. Actually, those that I know tend to be even MORE male - one of my players is gay, and he's ALL about kicking butt and chewing bubble gum.

It's us bisexuals you gotta watch out for :D.
 

Bob Aberton said:
I think fusangite's problem is that he's making HUGE generalizations, ie, all women have basically the same motivations and thought processes, ditto for all men.
See my post, 2-3 back. I think I'm right when I say that he didn't mean to post it as a True Generalization, just a Useful Generalization... that is to say, you can use it as a rule of thumb, but there are plenty of exceptions.
Just my ramblings. My arguments probably have holes the size of Texas in them, but there they are.
Nothing is the size of Texas.
 

seasong said:
Nothing is the size of Texas.
*obligatory Dave Barry reference*

My, what a big state you have here. It certainly is big, despite being nowhere NEAR the size of Alaska, Har Har Har. It must be nice to live in the SECOND-biggest state, Har Har Har.

*end Dave Barry Reference*

--The Sigil

(Who has driven through Texas and whose wife used to live in Alaska)
 

Might as well add to the fanfare.

I've played both male and female characters. I tend to develope a character idea, and then choose the sex that I think best fits that concept. I have yet to play a bi or homosexual character of either sex. If I had a character concept that I was interested in which called for this, I would do it. Until it fits the character, I'm unlikely to do so.

The character that gave me the most trouble roleplaying happened to be a straight male. The character was from a different ethnic group and slightly different culture. I had a good idea of what I wanted to do, but found I couldn't get into the correct mindset for that character. It happens.


Given all that, my advice would be:
  • Decide what is and isn't kosher in your campaign. Certain adult themes (sex, rape, seduction, sexuality, etc) may be something that you don't want in your game. This should be uniform, no sex means that the guys aren't out trying to seduce every female NPC either.
  • If you allow it, don't tolerate inappropriate comments from the other players. This includes them insulting the player, constantly ragging on the character because of gender when there was none of that with the female NPCs, or anything of the kind.
  • If it doesn't work out, explain to the player why you don't think it is working and then ask if they would mind creating a new character.

I've had fun with playing cross gender. I know other players who have also had fun with it. Unless you are sure that you or the group can't handle it in a mature manner, I would say let them try it.
 

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