Man of Steel sequel writer insults geeks and says other things

[Bedrockgames]

I think it goes the other way. It does not contain humor in and of itself. It is the context that puts humor into it - and it takes wit and effort to generate that context.

And that's where Zombie_Babies' point fails. If you don't use wit, and you don't even try to take the effort to generate the proper context, you aren't telling a joke.

Z_B misses something important - you cannot insult another person or people, and have it be a joke, if you are in the superior position. The person in power cannot look down at others, and publicly note their flaws, and stand safe on a pedestal, immune to repercussions. Louis CK understands this, and spends a lot of time in his routines making fun of himself, and his own demographics. He tries to make sure he isn't on a pedestal.
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I think we just disagree on what makes something funny. Context is absolutely important but I don't hunk the power dynamic had anything to do with why this wasn't funny. It wasn't funny because it was a softball in that situation. The event itself doesn't lend itself well to humor. Whereas if it arises at a comedy club (say through a heckler or something) I just think it would be more funny. But funny or not, I just can't get bent out of shape over it.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

On behalf of Mr. Torgue, that sentence had too many words. An apology is requested along with an air guitar solo.

As for David Goyer's comment, the sentiment seems to be that he isn't a good writer. That should be more concerning than his joke {insert explosion noise here}.

EXPLOOOOOOOOOOOSIOOOOOOOOOONNNNN!!!

I think it goes the other way. It does not contain humor in and of itself. It is the context that puts humor into it - and it takes wit and effort to generate that context.

And that's where Zombie_Babies' point fails. If you don't use wit, and you don't even try to take the effort to generate the proper context, you aren't telling a joke.

Z_B misses something important - you cannot insult another person or people, and have it be a joke, if you are in the superior position. The person in power cannot look down at others, and publicly note their flaws, and stand safe on a pedestal, immune to repercussions. Louis CK understands this, and spends a lot of time in his routines making fun of himself, and his own demographics. He tries to make sure he isn't on a pedestal.

Goyer, did not do that. He took no effort to remove himself from the high-horse. He so clearly did not take the effort, that I don't think he was even *trying* to make a joke, but was instead making an ad hominem argument for why we should not listen to his detractors.

Who put him on the pedestal? Who gave him this power you speak of? Certainly not me. Maybe that's your problem, Umbran. You've sold yourself short here.

If a comic goes on stage and tells jokes that nobody laughs at, that doesn't mean he isn't a comic, it just means he's a bad one (or had a bad night). Everybody bombs, man. Not all jokes are winners but that doesn't make 'em not jokes.

Meh, if you want to put yourself in the position of a victim here I can't stop you. But that's what you're doing and I can't even begin to understand why. The man didn't attack you, hell brah, you don't even fit what he said. If you look for offense you're sure to find it. I don't know what else to say.

EDIT: One more thing I don't think I understand: Why on Earth should a comic be expected to take a shot at himself - to 'remove himself from the high horse' - before making a joke at someone else's expense? Since when did comedy become a quid pro quo thing?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Not really, no. Denying people their chance to call out jerks is, ultimately, worse than the jerk condition to begin with. You may get tired of reading about people's complaints, but you aren't a captive audience and can avoid these sorts of threads.

I think if he wanted to deny people the ability to do that he would have simply closed the thread. I think if people have a right to say they are tired of a particular trend. Especially if it impacts the tones and atmosphere of discussions they are a part of.

 

[Bedrockgames]

EDIT: One more thing I don't think I understand: Why on Earth should a comic be expected to take a shot at himself - to 'remove himself from the high horse' - before making a joke at someone else's expense? Since when did comedy become a quid pro quo thing?

I dont really get this myself, but I am not sure that was what Umbran was saying exactly. My feeling is some comedians, like Louis CK, are great with self depricating humor, others, like Daniel Tosh or Lewis Black are good at humor that makes fun of people other than themselves. To me these can all be funny. And even Louis CK isnt affraid to use the power of his podium and mic to really dig into someone. There is a classic episode if his show where he takes on a female heckler by going for the jugular and makes no effort to knock himself down in the process.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

I dont really get this myself, but I am not sure that was what Umbran was saying exactly. My feeling is some comedians, like Louis CK, are great with self depricating humor, others, like Daniel Tosh or Lewis Black are good at humor that makes fun of people other than themselves. To me these can all be funny. And even Louis CK isnt affraid to use the power of his podium and mic to really dig into someone. There is a classic episode if his show where he takes on a female heckler by going for the jugular and makes no effort to knock himself down in the process.

Well I don't know what he was saying if that wasn't it. He criticized the guy for not getting off his horse before taking a shot while lauding Louis for his tendency to goof on himself as much as others. What else can that mean?

Thanks for bringing up the fact that Louis also frequently simply attacks to attack. I'm a fan of his - not just his comedy and show but his appearances on Opie and Anthony as well and I can tell you he has no qualms brutalizing someone (hilariously) without devoting an equal time to himself ... and now I have to ask why I told you that after you said the same thing, more or less. I'm sleepy ...

 

[Janx]

let's play it the other way. Did Goyer have a valid point?

Goyer's point was that the Martian Manhunter is not an iconic DC character like Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman is. He's not A-List material. And the only people who will miss him are a minority that focuses too much on obscure trivia instead of the big picture of making a movie that the general population will be interested in seeing.

However poorly stated, it sounds like valid reasoning to me. There's a reason Marvel keeps putting Wolverine on every Team comic they make. He's an A-List character that drives sales. You'll note the Black Widow doesn't have her own film, and had to play second fiddle to Captain America's latest escapade. Same reason.

frankly, I'm surprised they didn't find 2 more A-List characters instead of Hawkeye and Black Widow (and Ant man and girlfriend aren't it either, except to Avengers purists).

 

[Umbran]

However poorly stated, it sounds like valid reasoning to me. There's a reason Marvel keeps putting Wolverine on every Team comic they make. He's an A-List character that drives sales. You'll note the Black Widow doesn't have her own film, and had to play second fiddle to Captain America's latest escapade. Same reason.

We'll see if that is valid reasoning after Guardians of the Galaxy, which is an entire B-list movie.

But, to be honest, the reasoning isn't the issue under discussion. How he presented his argument is the issue. Being correct is not license to be a jerk.

frankly, I'm surprised they didn't find 2 more A-List characters instead of Hawkeye and Black Widow (and Ant man and girlfriend aren't it either, except to Avengers purists).

That doesn't surprise me at all. When you put an A-list character in a movie, the fans have some expectation that character will get a certain minimum of attention. Avengers was about full. Nobody will mind if Hawkeye gets short shrift, but everyone would be annoyed if a big favorite isn't done justice.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

How many people in the audience have heard of Martian Manhunter?” After hearing some light applause and cheers, he added, “How many people that raised their hands have ever been laid?”

I'm not sure why you guys are complaining. That's a pretty funny joke. It's just a slight variation of an often told joke. That some didn't find it funny is one thing, but it doesn't make it not a joke.

 

[Kramodlog]

And some of the best jokes are a little bit true.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

And some of the best jokes are a little bit true.

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