Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[Bedrockgames]

”Priest” is commonly used outside of D&D instead of “cleric” with basically no problems or people complaining about the term. There are other terms that could work just as well. We have evocative terms like seer, oracle, augur, prophet, soothsayer, and the like.

In the case of “Druid,” we could always use evocative terms like Geomancer or even Ecomancer (to borrow from Pirates of Dark Water) to communicate what the class is about.

Sure, but priest is also kind of vanilla because it can apply to anything from a Catholic priest to a Daoist priest. I think when people use terms like shaman or druid, they use them because they bring more flavor to mind on their own. Seer and augur are also very flavorful. I don't think geomancer or ecomancer bring things as quickly to mind as druid does. Again, maybe for a particular setting those would work. I am not saying Druid is the only and best .I just think this taking a fine tooth comb to these names is misguided. You are just taking useful words off the table.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

”Priest” is commonly used outside of D&D instead of “cleric” with basically no problems or people complaining about the term. There are other terms that could work just as well. We have evocative terms like seer, oracle, augur, prophet, soothsayer, and the like.

In the case of “Druid,” we could always use evocative terms like Geomancer or even Ecomancer (to borrow from Pirates of Dark Water) to communicate what the class is about.

Prophet could be touchy - idk. These are all good terms though, although, perhaps some are a bit too specific - such as being forms of divination. Dresden Files does this for spellcasters. Takes a specialty and adds "mancy" to the end of it such as Ectomancy(magic dealing with ghosts).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In the case of a discussion which seems to center around «shaman», «druid», and «mana» being bad when used in D&D because they aren't used in their correct cultural context of origin, and are applied only to primitives in D&D, and D&D is largely written by subjects of the US, within the US, for a still largely US-dominated market, with US Law being its relevant baseline under which it works...

Yeah, that still doesn't make sense, sorry, because this isn't actually a legal issue, it's an ethical one. And the particular "bike theft" example relied not ethics at all, but on a peculiarity in part of the US legal system, which many (most?) legal systems do not share.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Prophet could be touchy - idk.

And this is exactly why these kinds of arguments that stifle language, are not good for creativity in my opinion. Prophet is a perfectly useful word, and it evokes so much. Used accurately, it would be awesome, but it could also bring a lot of flavor if used in a new way. And I think if we are at the point where a word like prophet is a problem, then things are pretty dire in terms of creative freedom.

 

[Aldarc]

Sure, but priest is also kind of vanilla because it can apply to anything from a Catholic priest to a Daoist priest.

Feature, not a bug.

I think when people use terms like shaman or druid, they use them because they bring more flavor to mind on their own. Seer and augur are also very flavorful. I don't think geomancer or ecomancer bring things as quickly to mind as druid does. Again, maybe for a particular setting those would work. I am not saying Druid is the only and best .I just think this taking a fine tooth comb to these names is misguided. You are just taking useful words off the table.

Off the table? As far as the OP, I said that we should consider how we use these terms.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Feature, not a bug.

It can be. I am not saying priest isn't useful in D&D. But I think it would be a mistake to use priest in place of more flavorful options where more flavor is a good thing.

 

[Aldarc]

It can be. I am not saying priest isn't useful in D&D. But I think it would be a mistake to use priest in place of more flavorful options where more flavor is a good thing.

”Priest” is no less flavorful than “rogue,” “fighter,” or even “wizard.”

 

[Bedrockgames]

Off the table? As far as the OP, I said that we should consider how we use these terms.

Fair enough, but you are still stifling peoples language. And I think the reason you get such backlash against it is because language and the words we use and know, these are often just natural ways we communicate. When you start making people second guess that, it puts people on edge and it reduces their ability to comfortably be creative. I would liken it to having a boss who goes over every little thing you type in an email or report, and attacks the frills rather than the meat of the material. Enough of that, and it just has a chilling effect on your ability to communicate. And this is fundamentally about communication.

In the case of how words are used. I just think there are a lot of very bad arguments, perhaps well intentioned, that equate accuracy and authenticity with morally good, and inaccuracy or inauthenticity with morally bad. But that stifles a very important part of creativity and of cultural exchange. Borrowing thing X and using it to create a new thing is what breathes life into stuff. If you can only use it in a certain approved way....I don't know. It just seems like you are killing peoples ability to make new things. Why should the word have to match the original context in any way? Just look at a word like Zombies. Those evolved into their own unique monster when the term was borrowed. Sometimes terms are misunderstood as well, and this accidentally creates something new and interesting. I just don't see why we need to wring our hands over something like that.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

And this is exactly why these kinds of arguments that stifle language, are not good for creativity in my opinion. Prophet is a perfectly useful word, and it evokes so much. Used accurately, it would be awesome, but it could also bring a lot of flavor if used in a new way. And I think if we are at the point where a word like prophet is a problem, then things are pretty dire in terms of creative freedom.

Once again, I agree. But that's why I wrote IDK. There's an entire 'book of Prophets' in the Bible. What are the odds that it will be taken out of context and, then, have to be removed? It's a minefield.

Feature, not a bug.

I actually don't think Priest is a wide enough umbrella if you want to be inclusive to everyone. Many religions, including many Christian denominations don't have Priests. And the religions that do have them could easily make the same argument that are being made for Shaman.

 

[Bedrockgames]

”Priest” is no less flavorful than “rogue,” “fighter,” or even “wizard.”

I agree. But we are talking about druids and shamans. I am not saying every word used in the game should have the same level of flavor as druid. I am saying, it is useful to be able to use that kind of word freely in a game.