Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[Bagpuss]

Should we keep them as being less intelligent than baseline commoners?

It depends what Intelligence represents in D&D it frequently seems to indicate education( learning) , rather than what we might consider the ability to learn in which case perhaps they should be.

Wisdom on the other hand is for less traditional education, so perhaps a bonus to that.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It depends what Intelligence represents in D&D it frequently seems to indicate education( learning) , rather than what we might consider the ability to learn in which case perhaps they should be.

That's not what it means, so we can solve that real easy:

Intelligence
Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.

Intelligence Checks
An Intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning. The Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, and Religion Skills reflect aptitude in certain kinds of Intelligence Checks.

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Education is in there, as a secondary thing, i.e. ability to draw on it, but Intelligence definitely does not mean education. So it's definitely inappropriate.

 

[Bagpuss]

All but one of those skills depends on your education. Int in earlier editions was all the knowledge skills.

While they might say it is meant to be stuff other than education it seems that is pretty much all it tends to cover especially since you also have wisdom.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not sure this specific example is about privilege.
Firstly, we are talking about INT, the dump stat of D&D.
Secondly, we are talking about INT on a "monster" where INT does not matter in the great scheme of things. Only the physical stats matter for To hit bonuses, Damage, Hit Points and AC.
Thirdly, my perception is pretty low.



Vikings have Shamans and everybody loves Vikings. So I think on this specific issue we are reaching.

No, actually, in 5e, they don't. The only things that have shamans in 5e, specifically, are ravenous monsters that eat people. IE. Evil stuff. Vikings, in 5e, have clerics.

And, again, let's not forget the optics of this. Saying that Tribal HUMANS are less intelligent than human commoners is probably a very, very bad message to send.

All but one of those skills depends on your education. Int in earlier editions was all the knowledge skills.

While they might say it is meant to be stuff other than education it seems that is pretty much all it tends to cover especially since you also have wisdom.

Again, let's not beat around the bush here. Tribal humans are less intelligent than commoner humans? Yeah, that's not going to fly too well.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

All but one of those skills depends on your education. Int in earlier editions was all the knowledge skills.

While they might say it is meant to be stuff other than education it seems that is pretty much all it tends to cover especially since you also have wisdom.

It's not like their definition wasn't clear. If they wanted it to mean "education", they could have said so, but they didn't. And INT saves, for example, definitely don't rely on "education" (nor benefit from it, generally).

 

[Maxperson]

Again, that isn't true. Drow were a player race in 1e. I'm pretty sure Dragon had rules for playing humanoids.

As people are so fond of reminding me when I bring up Dragon articles, those aren't official rules or even official options. They were just ideas the DM could use if he wanted to make them into house rules. That said, Dark Elves were presented as a PC race in the 1e UA, so were an official optional race.

 

[Maxperson]

Or, in this case, it's taking the notion that tribal people are LESS INTELLIGENT than commoners and that shaman traditions only apply to those less intelligent people.

That case not only doesn't exist in 5e, it explicitly says otherwise. First, there are no stats for tribal people. There are only stats for tribal WARRIORS. Second, tribal shamans use the druid stats and have an int of 12, which makes them more intelligent than commoners. We don't have stats for tribal chiefs, hunters, etc.

 

[Maxperson]

See, and I mean absolutely no insult here, but, that's generally what people mean when they talk about privilege. We have the privilege of being able to ignore these things and not notice them. So, shaman are tied to tribal peoples, who are defined as less intelligent (and among the lowest wisdom of all the NPC's) than commoners. Or, Shaman are tied to violent, backward, and frankly evil groups as well. It's all tied together.

Tribal peoples are not defined as less intelligent. We only have two examples of tribal peoples. Warriors who are less intelligent, and Shamans(druids) who are more intelligent. And this spin you've put on tribal wisdom continues to be amusing. Tribal WARRIORS have a higher wisdom than the vast majority of humans, since commoners make up the vast majority of humans and have a lower wisdom. Tribal shamans have a much higher wisdom.

 

[Maxperson]

No, actually, in 5e, they don't. The only things that have shamans in 5e, specifically, are ravenous monsters that eat people. IE. Evil stuff.

Aaaaaaaaand, every good humanoid race, like Halflings, Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and so on. they all specifically have shamans, too.

 

[Umbran]

Aging Reactionary White Male Cisgendered Heteronormative Anglophone Monoglot Gamer: Wah! But muh hegemony!

Mod Note:

Yeah, so, the trolling isn't acceptable. Walk it back several notches, or you'll be asked to leave the discussion.