Maneuvers & (non-Improved) unarmed strikes

[blargney the second]

A regular human does 1d3+Str nonlethal damage with an unarmed attack that provokes an AoO.

What happens if they use their fist to initiate a hypothetical martial strike that deals, for example, an extra 2d6 damage and allows a trip check without an AoO?
1) Is it possible, or do you need to use an actual weapon?
2) If it's allowed, does it do lethal or nonlethal damage?
2a) Is the unarmed damage nonlethal and the strike damage lethal?
3) Does it provoke an AoO for the attack?
3a) Does it provoke an AoO for the trip? (ie does the unarmed provoke override?)

Yours in idle curiosity,
-blarg

 

[DungeonMaester]

You can only use manuvers with weapons you are prof. with, and monks can use unarmed strikes with manuvers.

Normal Unarmed strike rules apply.

---Rusty

 

[blargney the second]

You can only use manuvers with weapons you are prof. with, and monks can use unarmed strikes with manuvers.

Normal Unarmed strike rules apply.

Your post made me want to check my notes. I looked all over the book and didn't actually find anything about requiring proficiency to initiate a maneuver. Do you have a source that I missed that I can reference?

 

[glass]

A regular human does 1d3+Str nonlethal damage with an unarmed attack that provokes an AoO.

What happens if they use their fist to initiate a hypothetical martial strike that deals, for example, an extra 2d6 damage and allows a trip check without an AoO?

My take, based on your description (obviously, the precise wording of our hypothetical strike could make a difference):

1) Is it possible, or do you need to use an actual weapon?

For most purposes, unarmed strike is an actual weapon. I see no difference in this case. So yes, you can do it (assuming the hypothetical strike doesn't specify a tripping weapon).

2) If it's allowed, does it do lethal or nonlethal damage?

Non-lethal, unless the strike specifies otherwise. Same would apply with a sap.

2a) Is the unarmed damage nonlethal and the strike damage lethal?

As 2), all non-lethal unless the strike specifies otherwise.

3) Does it provoke an AoO for the attack?

Yes, attacking with an unarmed strike still provokes. The strike says no AoO for the trip, right?

3a) Does it provoke an AoO for the trip? (ie does the unarmed provoke override?)

No. You provoke for the unarmed strike, but the trip explicitly does not provoke. Actually, you specify a trip check, not a trip attempt. Since the unarmed touch attack is the part that provokes, we are skipping that (and the AoO that goes along with it), there will be no AoO anyway so saying that it doesn't provoke is redundant.


glass.

 

[blargney the second]

Cool, thanks glass.

I think I may have to start using Divine Surge to deal nonlethal damage. Accidental foe decapitation makes it pretty difficult to interrogate afterwards.

 

[javcs]

Cool, thanks glass.

I think I may have to start using Divine Surge to deal nonlethal damage. Accidental foe decapitation makes it pretty difficult to interrogate afterwards.

Just don't use a vorpal weapon ... it'll still cut the guy's head off (with the flat of the blade?) when dealing non-lethal damage.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Just don't use a vorpal weapon ... it'll still cut the guy's head off (with the flat of the blade?) when dealing non-lethal damage.

It certainly conjures up an interesting mental image....

 

[javcs]

It certainly conjures up an interesting mental image....

True ... I'm not entirely sure how I'd describe something like that were it to come up in game - "Though you seek to only smash him unconscious with the flat of your blade, something goes awry with your blow as it sends his head flying off into the air, only to ignominiously fall to the ground beside his corpse with a thud."