Many Questions about FATE Core and True20

[Randy_Robertson]

Hiya!
I picked up a copy of Mecha Vs Kaiju (finally, a kaiju game that doesn't treat the genre like a Saturday morning cartoon for 3-year-olds!) and I'm loving the setting and the supplements. However, I'm not a big fan of the FATE rules. I like my systems a bit more crunchy than that. BUT THEN... ... I found the older MvK in the True20 system, which I'm having a lot more love for. And so...

First Question = Is there anywhere that has a conversion mechanic from FATE to True20? I'm not comfortable enough with either system to do it myself with confidence, and that's a lot of supplements to let go to waste.

Second Question = Both systems use a Size/Scale mechanic that stops at 128 feet. This is a problem. The original Showa-era Godzilla starts at 164 feet and eventually tops out at 389 feet (Shin Gz). And an Imperial Star Destroyer is over 5200 feet long. So, does the scale keep going up proportionally / or / do objects that massive get broken into zones of smaller size that have to be treated individually? Or maybe something else?

(EDIT: Woops. Just saw where True20 goes up to 250 ft. That helps, but not enough.)

 

[JohnF]

Closest I've ever seen to any sort of d20-ish system conversion was a chart in the Fate Freeport Companion (page 58) that aligned d20 ability scores with the ladder. Fate Freeport did its own thing - turning D&D stats into something akin to FAE approaches, but with skill-like breadth - so I've no idea if this is even a good place for you to start.

Fate Value​	D20 Value​
Legendary (+8)​	41+​
Epic (+7)​	31-40
Fantastic (+6)​	26-30
Superb (+5)​	21-25
Great (+4)​	18-20
Good (+3)​	16-17
Fair (+2)​	14-15
Average (+1)​	12-13
Mediocre (+0)​	10-11
Poor (-1)​	6-9
Terrible (-2)​	5-

 

[jaerdaph]

The Fate Freeport Companion is indeed an excellent resource for converting d20 material into Fate. It's also a great resource if you want to play any D&D setting with Fate.

Here's a free d20 to Fate conversion guide. Note that it predates Fate Core and Fate Accelerated (it's from the Spirit of the Century era), but there's still a lot of useful stuff in there:

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

And here is Green Ronin's original d20 to True20 conversion guide:

https://freeronin.com/gr_files/d20toTrue20.pdf

Hopefully you might be able to cobble something together from these pieces.

 

[jaerdaph]

Thinking about this more, I think you should consider going abstract with the scale, like how movement zones in Fate are abstract rather than tied to a d20 5' foot grid. Here's a link to the scale section of the Fate System Toolkit in the SRD:

Scale • Fate System Toolkit

fate-srd.com

At a bare minimum go with the high end of four scale steps. You will probably find you need more. You can always adjust your scale steps up or down for the next session if you find it doesn't work for your table during play.

 

[jaerdaph]

Aaaaaaaaand I just realized you want to go the other way: Fate to True20. Dammit I'm getting old!

Reverse engineering?

 

[Randy_Robertson]

I did the same blooming thing! I thought "Eureka! This is awesome!" And then, "Oh... wait..."

 

[Randy_Robertson]

Many many moons ago, in WEG's Star Wars, there was a rule variant for target zones. A Star Destroyer was so frikking massive a fighter squadron had no chance at all against it. But by breaking it into a series of smaller zones that could be attacked individually (I think there were 8 or 9 zones), they could at least try to do some limited-but-significant damage or take out critical systems. I was thinking maybe doing something like that for the Seriously Large Critters, or to allow well-armed groups of infantry or vehicles to have some chance against more average kaiju.
(Yes, I really did just say Average Kaiju).

 

[jaerdaph]

I like that idea of individual zones a lot. Related to that, maybe take a look at progress clocks from Blades in the Dark to see if they offer something:

Progress Clocks | Blades in the Dark RPG

bladesinthedark.com

 

[Ratskinner]

Hiya!
I picked up a copy of Mecha Vs Kaiju (finally, a kaiju game that doesn't treat the genre like a Saturday morning cartoon for 3-year-olds!) and I'm loving the setting and the supplements. However, I'm not a big fan of the FATE rules. I like my systems a bit more crunchy than that. BUT THEN... ... I found the older MvK in the True20 system, which I'm having a lot more love for. And so...

First Question = Is there anywhere that has a conversion mechanic from FATE to True20? I'm not comfortable enough with either system to do it myself with confidence, and that's a lot of supplements to let go to waste.

Conversions and Fate are a not-really tricky business. Fate doesn't work on the same premises that most rpgs work on, even though it looks like it does at first glance. Usually when converting into Fate, the best advice is not to shoot for a one-to-one mechanical correspondence, but ask how you want it to work in the narrative. I think this might be the first time I've seen someone ask about converting OUT of Fate. I'm pretty sure there's no need to be totally devoted to trying to suss out some kind of direct correspondence between a Fate rating or aspects and an in-game physical representation, its probably not there. Essentially, you'll probably be inventing a d20 system using the Fate system as inspiration.

I'm very familiar with Fate and somewhat familiar with True20, can you give an example of a mechanic that is giving you trouble? For instance, is there some kind of stunt or extra from Fate that you want to replicate? The most common Fate numerical bonus is +2, which is pretty significant given Fate's dice. I would think it would convert to a +5 (for a stunt or aspect). You might want to resize that, depending on the Scale mechanism you're using.

Second Question = Both systems use a Size/Scale mechanic that stops at 128 feet. This is a problem. The original Showa-era Godzilla starts at 164 feet and eventually tops out at 389 feet (Shin Gz). And an Imperial Star Destroyer is over 5200 feet long. So, does the scale keep going up proportionally / or / do objects that massive get broken into zones of smaller size that have to be treated individually? Or maybe something else?

(EDIT: Woops. Just saw where True20 goes up to 250 ft. That helps, but not enough.)

In Fate, the best representation is "whatever works best for the story". Breaking up a much larger creature into several zones is common practice...well, its often used as an example anyway. You can probably do something similar in True20 with little work.

IME, without doing so, conflicts with massively diverse scale get...weird. I mean, think Ant-man vs Iron Man. Iron Man's super-armor doesn't really bother Ant-man, because he's just going to be attacking a few junctions and connectors inside. I don't think I've ever encountered the situation where a PC is the much larger creature...that might take some thinking. Swarm mechanics, maybe?

 

[Randy_Robertson]

I'm very familiar with Fate and somewhat familiar with True20, can you give an example of a mechanic that is giving you trouble? For instance, is there some kind of stunt or extra from Fate that you want to replicate? The most common Fate numerical bonus is +2, which is pretty significant given Fate's dice. I would think it would convert to a +5 (for a stunt or aspect). You might want to resize that, depending on the Scale mechanism you're using.

As I'm still learning the Fate system, there's no specifics that are causing trouble yet. But the first step will be PC&NPC conversion. Here's a example that appear in both systems. As you can see, going from True20 to Fate will be fairly straight-forward with a minimum of rationalizing and modeling. But going from Fate to True20... well... it seems like less science and more like art.

Kaibutsu (FATE / Showa-form)
Fight+7, Physique+6, Provoke+6, Athletics+5, Notice+5, Will+5
Stress Boxes: 4 (2,3,3,4)
Consequences: 2 Minor, Moderate, Severe
Mutation Points: 17
+Cry of the King+
• Roar: Once per scene it can make a Provoke attack against all targets within 2 sectors.
• Mighty Roar: Once per scene it can make Provoke attacks against all targets that can hear it, no matter how far away. This takes the place of the “Roar” attack.
+Atomic Breath+
• Weapon Value 2
• Alternate Attack: Kaibutsu gathers raw radioactive energy from its body and channels it through its destructive breath. This attack form uses Physique as its base instead of Shoot.
• Blast: It may attack targets up to 2 sectors away.
• Blow Through: Once per conflict, when it inflicts a physical consequence on an opponent it may also inflict a 2-point physical hit on another opponent in the same sector.
+Devastating Rage+
• Bug Stomp:. May always attack human-size targets or vehicles, and always deals one additional stress on a successful physical hit.
• Enraged: When it takes a Consequence it also gains the aspect “Enraged” with a free invoke.
+Indestructible+
• Beneath Notice: Cannot take physical stress from human-size enemies.
• Bug Proof: Whenever it is attacked by a mob, opponents do not get a teamwork bonus when attacking.
• Hardened: The first 2 stress boxes absorb 2 and 3 points of stress respectively.
• Regeneration: Once per scene it may reduce the level of a Consequence one step (Severe to Moderate, Moderate to Mild) or eliminate a Mild consequence.
• Renewal: Once per session it may clear all damage from its Stress Boxes.
• Strength at the Base: When it takes stress and that box is already checked, it may check off the next lowest box instead of the next highest.
• Unbreakable Hide: Armor Value 2

Kaibutsu (True20)

• 17th Level Kaiju (Size: Colossal, Speed: 60 ft.)
• Abilities: Str +24, Dex -1, Con +13, Int -2, Wis 0, Cha +1
• Ability Increases: 3
• Conviction: 12
• Skills: Swimming 34, Notice 7
• Feats: Advanced Critical (Bite), Advanced Frightful
• Presence, All-out Attack, Attack Focus (Bite), Awesome Blow, Diehard, Double Strike, Improved Frightful Presence, Improved Natural Attack (Bite), Power Attack, Rage,
• Traits: Amphibious, Darkvision 120’, Damage Reduction(X4) 12/Piercing, Fast Healing, Frightful Presence Save DC 23, Natural Weapons (Bite), Natural Weapons (Claw), Rake, Range Attack (Flame Ray), Trample, Savage Grace, Must eat, sleep, and Breath
• Combat: Melee Attack +36 (-8 size, +17 base, +24 Str) (+37 with Bite), Damage +36 (Bite) or +34 (Claw); Ranged Attack +8 (-8 size, +17 base, -1 Dex); Defense Dodge/Parry +11/+46; Initiative -1
• Saving Throws: Toughness +41 (+13 Con, +16 natural, +8 Traits), Fortitude +23 (+10 base, +13 Con), Reflex +4 (+5 Base, -1 Dex), Will +5 (+5 Base)

I also think that these were designed by writers with two different interpretations, as some of their characteristics don't correspond at all.