Manyshot with a crossbow

[atomn]

Anyway, I've always pictured <Manyshot> as nocking two or more arrows which are fired simultaneously.

That's what I've thought too. Not that illustrations indicate a gaming law but that's the way Manyshot is depicted in a picture in the PHB. And it explains why both arrows use the same attack roll.

 

[pawsplay]

So you'd allow Manyshot with a light or hand crossbow for someone with Rapid Reload?

No, I would not. The picture in my mind was an archer holding his aim and shooting off a couple of arrows. Crossbows load mechanically. Short of gyro-stabilization, there is no way to get a similar effect with a crossbow.

Anyway, I've always pictured nocking and firing quickly as a full attack with a bow and Manyshot as nocking two or more arrows which are fired simultaneously.

I think that's the default assumption.

In a recent game session, someone wanted to tie two flasks of holy water together and throw them simultaneously. The DM disallowed it, but that seems to me to be a reasonable way to use Manyshot with a thrown weapon.

... as if there is such a thing, because Manyshot is for arrows. But I don't think that would be an effective throwing weapon, at least, as a double throwing weapon. Tying them together in an effective manner would just make it a larger dose of holy water, I think.

Using a small bag to hurl two sling stones or sling bullets simultaneously would be one way of pulling off Manyshot with a sling,

If by "pulling off Manyshot" you mean, "sprinkling rocks to and fro in a fairly random fashion," sure.

and simply lining up crossbow bolts on the string doesn't seem to me to be very different from firing two arrows simultaneously from a bow.

Have you tried it? Crossbows, first of all, are grooved. Second, they launch mechanically, which uses a device calibrated for a single missile. Third, the recoil would be a serious problem.

You've got a significant penalty to hit, but if you're skilled or lucky enough, I'm not going to say you can't pull it off.

You can throw your greatsword as in improvised weapon, if you want.

I hope you're not limiting the PCs in your game to doing only the things that you have seen.

No. But having seen it, I can believe nocking two arrows is a tactic that might be reasonably successful in combat. I do not believe that of trying to launch more than one crossbow bolt.

How would you even load it? The string comes to a point at the bolt's nock when loaded. How would you load it such that both bolts touched the string? The bolt typically sits in a groove, and frequently has a platform behind it. How would you thread two crossbow bolts? A crossbow is calibrated to one missile. What would the effect on range and power of each missile be if the energy were shared? Crossbows are aimed by "point and shoot," that is, by matching an expected arc to your aim. How would you get an accurate shot if each crossbow bolt was hit by vibration a fraction of a second into the launch?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

It's not RAW, but I'd allow it. It's hardly game breaking given the reload requirements for a crossbow. In the same vein, I'd allow Manyshot to apply to thrown weapons as well. "Realism" be damned -- it's just too cool to allow two daggers, or two shuriken, with one throw.

 

[atomn]

"Realism" be damned -- it's just too cool to allow two daggers, or two shuriken, with one throw.

I agree!

 

[Xath]

In a recent game session, someone wanted to tie two flasks of holy water together and throw them simultaneously. The DM disallowed it, but that seems to me to be a reasonable way to use Manyshot with a thrown weapon.

Tying two flasks together with rope sounds like you're making bolas to me. Exotic weapon proficiency, but there's the potential that you entangle/trip them when making the attack.

 

[Solarious]

Tying two flasks together with rope sounds like you're making bolas to me. Exotic weapon proficiency, but there's the potential that you entangle/trip them when making the attack.

So, basicly what you're saying is that you apply a -4 modifier for an improvised weapon? It sounds reasonable. I wouldn't allow it to entangle though, because one, it opens up precidence for weird rules interations, two, those holy water flasks aren't exactly balanced for bolaing someone with all that... er... holy water sloshing about, and three, it's dangerous to use real bolas without training. Realism may be damned in DnD, but it needs to be halfway believable too. Chains, ropes, and other 'soft' weapons require incredible skill, dexterity, and training/practice to master in real life, or it is much easier to hit yourself than it is to hit what needs hitting. We represent this as the feat 'Exotic Weapon Proficency' in DnD, which requires only a nonce of martial skill (+1 BAB, meaning it's a 3rd level feat for Commoners), but using a improvised bola weapon without a feat stretches credaibility, and we already have that with level 20-1hp Fighters fighting as well as a 290hp one.

"Realism" be damned -- it's just too cool to allow two daggers, or two shuriken, with one throw.

Agreed! This is DnD, where throwing Fireballs is practically normal, two daggers seems commonplace in comparison.

 

[FireLance]

Tying two flasks together with rope sounds like you're making bolas to me. Exotic weapon proficiency, but there's the potential that you entangle/trip them when making the attack.

I probably could have expressed myself more clearly. He didn't have bolas in mind. Imagine two drink cans held together with a rubber band. That's the basic idea, except that it was two vials of holy water and some string.

And, from the tone of most of the comments, I'm starting to think that the Manyshot feat should be generalized like Rapid Shot to cover the ability to fire or throw two or more (if BAB permits) projectiles or thrown weapons of any sort. A feat and a -4 (or more) penalty to hit seems like a reasonable trade-off to me.