Mark of Healing

[Maelronde]

Interesting.

In my games seriously muchkining heal-bots like this will eventually run into a L+3 or L+4 encounter with intelligents (artilleries with a synergised soldier or three) that will focus-fire him the first time he pulls that in front of them. One round of good DM rolls and that heal-bot will be out.

Comes down to the fine line between good specialisation and metagaming/munchkining I guess.

Interesting indeed. I like your point.

I suppose I could be a little more mean on the focus fire.

Just hate to have to use the same tactic every time, and it stinks for that player to spend his turns just making death saves, only because wizards didn't think his powers through. He loves and cherishes his pure healer to death---always plays healers in every game.

My game has been running smoothly and fairly since I used the interpretation, "Mark of healing grants a save only to the direct target of a healing power." Before, they devastated my encounters, especially with the number of monster power save conditions in paragon.

Based on these results, I'd have to side that customer service is not ruling as they should.

 

[Kzach]

Completely nullifies all ongoing damage or save ends effects.

How is it nullifying the ongoing damage from Stream of Life?

In your situation he can enact Stream of Life only for one encounter a day. And when he does so, he takes 5 ongoing damage (which can't be reduced in any way).

Are you allowing him to gain hit points from his own Astral Seal? If so, you've misinterpreted the power. A person is not their own ally and can't benefit from any effect they initiate that effects only allies.

So I don't really see the problem here. He takes 5 damage every turn, at the start of his turn, he heals a party member of 15 hit points, takes 5 damage, and grants them a saving throw with a +6. That's awesome, but I don't see how it's broken or overpowered.

 

[Maelronde]

How is it nullifying the ongoing damage from Stream of Life?

In your situation he can enact Stream of Life only for one encounter a day. And when he does so, he takes 5 ongoing damage (which can't be reduced in any way).

Are you allowing him to gain hit points from his own Astral Seal? If so, you've misinterpreted the power. A person is not their own ally and can't benefit from any effect they initiate that effects only allies.

So I don't really see the problem here. He takes 5 damage every turn, at the start of his turn, he heals a party member of 15 hit points, takes 5 damage, and grants them a saving throw with a +6. That's awesome, but I don't see how it's broken or overpowered.

Grr.

It nullifies my monsters ongoing damage and save ends effects, because he can pump out up to 3-6 granted saves a round, including things like healing word and items, if he wants to.

Yes, its a daily, but he uses it during my most important battles---boss fights. My boss has a save ends effect? Forget it. Use a different monster.

And no, he's healing the party with astral seal.

So many saves.. so many....for brevity i just listed his worst combo. But there are a lot of free saves, just because of that stupid op feat. And loads and loads of surgeless healing ontop of it all.

 

[DracoSuave]

That's fine for a table-top, home game, RPG.
For organised play, however ... whenever there is more than one interpretataion for a rule, that's one too many (and thus requires FAQ, errata, whatever).

Well... for RPGA, specificly...


Dragonmarked feats require DM adjudication for a character for their legality. RPGA expressly forbids any player option that explicitly reqires DM adjudication. So the question of whether Mark of Healing works with Astral Seal in RPGA games is very simple: No, because you're not allowed to have it.

However, more accurately, Mark of Healing is concerned only if you are using a power with the healing keyword on an ally. If you are, they get a saving throw.

The following things are not concerned with Mark of Healing:

Targetting
Hit Points Healed
The effect of that power in any way on the ally.


So, if you have a power with the healing keyword that gives your ally a bonus to their defenses, for example, they still benefit from Mark of Healing, because it does not -actually- mention healing.

 

[Maelronde]

That's exactly what I told him, but if you look at the customer service response earlier posted in this thread, CS ruled otherwise.

 

[DracoSuave]

That's exactly what I told him, but if you look at the customer service response earlier posted in this thread, CS ruled otherwise.

I weight CS opinions as highly as I do any other opinion I read on the internet; which is why I always ask them -why- something is.

 

[Maelronde]

True, my ruling will stand. Glad to see not everyone takes CS words as golden truths

 

[DracoSuave]

True, my ruling will stand. Glad to see not everyone takes CS words as golden truths

Let's just say that there are certain posters on here I'm more willing to agree with based on their track record than CS.

 

[surfarcher]

Interesting indeed. I like your point.

I suppose I could be a little more mean on the focus fire.

Just hate to have to use the same tactic every time, and it stinks for that player to spend his turns just making death saves, only because wizards didn't think his powers through. He loves and cherishes his pure healer to death---always plays healers in every game.

My game has been running smoothly and fairly since I used the interpretation, "Mark of healing grants a save only to the direct target of a healing power." Before, they devastated my encounters, especially with the number of monster power save conditions in paragon.

Based on these results, I'd have to side that customer service is not ruling as they should.

Well let me clarify by saying that I would not do that out of left field.

I normally try to let them know that I think they are metagaming and specifically that they are combining options that may be overpowered. Not necessarily in those terms but that's what I try to get across. I try to negotiate with the player and let them rebuild to a better/more acceptable version of the character for free. If they won't have any of that I try to let them know, nicely, that their strategy won't always work and that a more well rounded and robust build is in their (and their character's) best interest.

But if it comes right down to it and they don't care...

Well it's very reasonable that intelligent monsters will focus fire and take out the characetr they see as the groups' cornerstone. You don't have to kill them. You don't have to come even close. But it sounds like their boss fights are too clsoe to cakewalks and they need the wind put up them A good scare can make for a very memorable battle and if you give them a good fright they will hopefully take your point and try to make the build a bit more robust.

Of course, I could be completely wrong and have misinterpretted a chunk of what you have posted... But it's just my 2cp worth and you should think through what you are going to do first.

All that aside it sounds like the approach you have taken in this case is working well for you so maybe just keep it in mind in case the guy makes a habit of this kind of thing

Cheers!

 

[surfarcher]

True, my ruling will stand. Glad to see not everyone takes CS words as golden truths

Not by a long shot! Someone recently posted on here that they ask CS the same question 5 times (and ask for an explanation, not just a ruling), check what folks think on here and then make their own decision.

Sad that CS can give a different answer every time they are asked! WotC needs to address that.