Marketing criticisms miss the point

[BlackMoria]

<snip>
Yet even if I agree they botched the marketing I especially don't understand why you wouldn't play a game you would otherwise play because it was marketed poorly. I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I know a lot of movies that could have used better marketing but that I love immensely and I know movies with great marketing that i hated. I don't see making a decision about a game like this based on marketing. Can someone help me understand?

Bingo. Why do the movie production companies go to such efforts to make compelling movie trailers? Because the success (or not) of the trailers is to sell the movie so you pony up the theatre admission.

Great movies have faired poorly in the box office due to mediocre marketing. Mediocre movies have gotten more than the proper box office receipts due to the marketing for the movie being very slick and high profile.

Marketing is entirely the point - to convince the public to buy your product. Is there any surprise that there is a correlation between marketing and sales.

Make the most fabulous movie in the world. Now, don't market it at all. No movie trailers on tv or the internet, no movie website. How do you think it will do in the box office? Marketing is a valid point.

 

[DaveMage]

Why not kill the old?

Because I like it.

 

[xechnao]

If 4E had the exact same game mechanics as Pendragon--exact same--it'd blow Pendragon out of the water and be a huge success.

Sad but true.

 

[Scribble]

Well, speaking only for myself, this is how the 3E original designers/marketers convinced me - before the books were out - to go from 2E to 3E.

I had a ton of 2E stuff - among my favorites being the planescape box sets - and when the 3E folks said that *all of the fluff in those box sets you love is still good* (hence, the products were still usable), I was much more open to a new way of doing things.

PLUS, they even made a conversion book for me. (Yeah, I admit I never really used the thing (and those that did use it have said it was not perfect) because 3E wowed me once I got the books. But the idea that they had spent the time to create something to try to make my conversion easier went a long way with me - especially since it was free with my Player's Handbook.)

Heck - maybe that's why I'm so anti-4e now. Not only are my 3.x books' fluff unusable, but so is my 2E stuff!

Yeah but they came out and said why they didn't do a conversion... Because they felt the conversion book wasn't a big success the first time around.

Incidently they did say a lot of the books would still be usefull... The rules neautral stuff mainly, but still...

Really I think they're a little more truthfull this time around... I mean they can say my 2e stuff was still suefull all they want... but really? When's the last time you used any of it aside from the flavor?

Maybe I'm weird though... But my 2e stuff has languished mostly on my shelves aside from sometimes reading some fo the flavor and sometimes using maps... But thats about it.

 

[DaveMage]

Yeah but they came out and said why they didn't do a conversion... Because they felt the conversion book wasn't a big success the first time around.

Well, my response to this is: "then do it better."

 

[Relique du Madde]

These are the words of a man who doesn't understand the concept of "brand." The popularity of D&D is not, was not, and never will be due to game mechanics.

The reason people don't want to try Ars Magica, Pendragon, or Feng Shui isn't because those games use different systems. It's because those games aren't called "Dungeons & Dragons." If 4E had the exact same game mechanics as Pendragon--exact same--it'd blow Pendragon out of the water and be a huge success.

4E is a success because of the words in front of 4E: "Dungeons & Dragons." It's the new edition, everyone will buy it, and we'll come to love it.

His argument was that WoTC decided to do what essentially was the equivalent of pouring dye and corn syrup into a bottle of water then marketing it as the new and improved Coke cola.

His complaint was that Instead of FIXING the precieved problems of the previous editions while maintaining optimal comparability, WoTC decided to do an entire revamp and only keep the name Dungeons and Dragons because they knew more people would buy it if they named it that opposed to the amount of people that would have bought it if it were called "Magic: The RPG" or anything else.

 

[Scribble]

Well, my response to this is: "then do it better."

Well, my response is, they did... They said: It's better for your game/ character to try to re-create the "feel" you were going for with the original.

 

[Scribble]

His argument was that WoTC decided to do what essentially was the equivalent of pouring dye and corn syrup into a bottle of water then marketing it as the new and improved Coke cola.

His complaint was that Instead of FIXING the precieved problems of the previous editions while maintaining optimal comparability, WoTC decided to do an entire revamp and only keep the name Dungeons and Dragons because they knew more people would buy it if they named it that opposed to the amount of people that would have bought it if it were called "Magic: The RPG" or anything else.

It's just my opinion mind you, hwoever, I feel that's bunk...

Having run the game a few times now, I can say I feel as if this game took the good parts of 3e and mixed it with the good parts of the earlier editions.

It feels to me more like the originals, but with the design goal of making sure things are fair and balanced along with options of the d20 systems.

 

[DaveMage]

Well, my response is, they did... They said: It's better for your game/ character to try to re-create the "feel" you were going for with the original.

And that's why you like 4e, and I don't.

 

[Imaro]

Why not kill the old? Are you saying that you'd prefer to just re-buy what you already own? WotC had an opportunity to throw out all that baggage, and they took it. The articles that explain their reasoning are quite well thought out and revealing, but really, one just needs to look at other beloved genres like superheros, and James Bond, and so on. Essentially: you need to refresh your content, or it grows stale.

You know what I find hilarious about this... when has WotC ever used, outside of some one-shot product, the breadth and depth of the various mythologies that have been part of D&D (Planescape, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, etc.). As I remembered it they claimed it would end up being a money loss if they were to have different settings. Yet now they kill the fluff (after alot of people wanted it for 3e) and decide to do exactly what they claimed helped kill D&D. IMHO this stuff would be brand new for most people who started with 3e.