Marking via Dragon's breath

Kzach

Banned
Banned
The thing is, marking via your breath is not cheese. It's simply what a Dragonborn Fighter does.

If a Knight Commander can mark 120 enemies simply by hitting one enemy and looking overwhelmingly awesome doing it, surely a Dragonborn Fighter with Enlarged Breath can mark 25 by unleashing a draconic breath weapon on them.

One is a paragon class ability, the other is clearly an abuse of a loop hole.

One is for a class that doesn't get a benefit from marking other than a -2, the other is from a synergy of abilities which were never meant to work that way and give the character a very powerful benefit.

Regardless, we'll see when they release a comprehensive errata list. If they do or don't change the fighter's marking ability to include adjacent and melee requirements, then we'll all know who's right and who's wrong.
And the only reason behind this seems to be because it offends your sensibilities. People are entitled to play the game differently from how you feel it ought to be played, and they would not necessarily be incorrect.

You feel it is cheese. I feel that it is perfectly acceptable. So who is correct now? Get over it already.:erm:

How'd we go from discussing RAW and the spirit of the rules to you insulting me and mounting your 9 hand horse?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

FadedC

First Post
One is a paragon class ability, the other is clearly an abuse of a loop hole.

One is for a class that doesn't get a benefit from marking other than a -2, the other is from a synergy of abilities which were never meant to work that way and give the character a very powerful benefit.

A fighter gains no more synergy then the paladin when he marks multiple opponents. He can only make 1 combat challenge attack a round.

The whole reason why the paladin gets abilities that mark lots of enemies and the fighter doesn't is because the fighter can use abilities like the dragon breath attack to mark them.
 

DracoSuave

First Post
1) The ability of Dragonborn to breath fire on things is not exactly a secret. Enemies seeing a Dragonborn then bunching up into a conveniant 5X5 cube are truly deserving of the fire breath that comes after them.

2) The combat challenge ability is the ability to make your offense seem more threatening and attention grabbing than it actually is... and backing it up with a sword to their face if they're close enough. Now, I don't know what they do with firebreath in your neighborhood, but where I come from, it's considered an attack, potentially a dangerous one. Fighters can make it through words or postures, or whatever, make it seem like more of a threat. It certainly would get my attention if that guy over there that looked like a sidekick from Barnie and Friends all of a sudden started melting people's faces with a maelstrom of unwanted acid. I would be marked by it, if the user had some form of ability to make it grab attention. 'HEY YOU! *blaaaaaast*'

3) If the dragon born marks that many guys there is a really good chance he'll get surrounded and ganked. He's not invulnerable.
 

Runestar

First Post
How'd we go from discussing RAW and the spirit of the rules to you insulting me and mounting your 9 hand horse?

I am not specifically targeting you in my reply, and sincerely apologize if I have inadvertently offended you. However, there seems to be an interesting trend around here where posters apparently attempt to use "common sense" and "obviously intended to do XXX" to justify passing off their own houserules as RAW.

I can't and won't dictate how you would run your games, nor do I really care (simply because they are not my games), but I feel that however meaningful or reasonable a proposed alternate interpretation of the rules may be, it is ultimately a houserule, and ought to be recognized as such.

To me, the manner in which a thread such as this could be answered is actually very simple and straighforward. The OP asked if a dragonborn fighter could mark using his breath weapon. I feel the best solution would simply be to point out how the rules on combat challenge evidently support the PC being able to perform such a feat. However, the respondent could also go one step further by offering his own opinions on whether he feels that it is a good idea or not, as well as explaining why he feels it to be so, as well as any proposed solutions.

At the end of the day, how the OP wishes to run his game should entirely be up to him. All we can (and should, IMO) do is to simply allow him to make an informed decision, so that he knows what to expect and what he will be getting into by choosing to run/interpret the rules in a certain manner. RAW seems fairly clear-cut in this case. Intent less so.

You did fulfil the first 2 criteria by explaining why you felt that combat challenge ought not to apply to ranged AoE effects like dragon breath or scorching burst. However, I felt that you also came across as being too bossy and arrogant by essentially implying that your take was the "only right one there can be" and that any other interpretations contrary to yours automatically mean that the people behind them are somehow devoid of any common sense whatsoever.

In short, I see it as a form of personal attack, because what I perceive you as saying is in effect "You obviously lack common sense if you disagree with me". I agree that your take is one possible interpretation, but I do not agree that it is the only plausible one. Especially since I still stand by my own original explanation, and this incidentally, also stems from my own belief on how I feel combat challenge was intended to work (that yes, you can mark at range), and not simply because I enjoy being difficult or arguing with other posters for the sake of arguing.:)
 

Lurker37

Explorer
It'd definitely RAW to allow a dragonborn fighter to mark with their breath weapon, and frankly it's not that overpowering since it only marks them for one round.

Sure, it forces those enemys to consider the dragonborn for the round after he breathes, but if he doesn't follow up by either positioning himself between them and the rest of the party or else getting in the midst of them so he can interrupt any attempt they make to move, he really hasn't achieved that much.

Furthermore, Dragonbreath doesn't discriminate between friend and foe, so this would not be a good tactic if party members were in the blast area. This means that nine fights out of ten the best time for this attack is in the first round of the fight. Enemies could simply delay thier limited-use powers til round 2, and concentrate on positioning and utility effects.
 


Arakim

First Post
No. There are just some types of cheese that I can swallow, and other types which make me want to puke.

If you puked on everyone in front of you, would you grab their attention?

What if they then caught on fire?

What if you barfed 25' in a 60 degree arc, Linda Blair style?

Me personally, I'd be watching you for allot longer than six seconds.

Once per encounter, for six seconds. I don't see the big deal here.
 

inati

First Post
How'd we go from discussing RAW and the spirit of the rules to you insulting me and mounting your 9 hand horse?

Maybe at the point you started stating that what we were saying was cheese? Don't fling poo and pretend you are innocent.
 

NorthSaber

First Post
My eladrin fighter/wizard uses Thunderwave every time we fight - usually to kill minions - and marks anyone in the area who didn't die. Our group hasn't seen this as an issue. If anything, it places my character in more danger than she might be able to handle!

I don't see the problem.
 

Leprejuan

Explorer
No. There are just some types of cheese that I can swallow, and other types which make me want to puke.

I find it interesting which things hit our "cheese" tastebuds.

I find this dragonborn marking perfectly fitting because it seems to follow the heroic scene.

Sir Pyronewt: "The dread fighter Pyronewt has come for your soul!" :: spews fire ::
:: Sid the Ogre watches his orc (minion) allies burn and swats out the fire on his own tattered lionskin.
Sid: "Roight. I'll 'ave you for that."

The one that gets me is the paladin challenge and hide trick.

Sir Snekeybritches: "I challenge thee to a battle to death, foul creature!"
:: Sid is covered in a wash of radiant energy as the challenge arcs between them, then Sir Snekeybritches eyebites and disappears. ::
Sid: "Roight. You and I will 'ave a battle what will go down in....uh, where'd he go?"

I don't think the designers intended the paladins (or crossclassers) to challenge and disappear. I think we might find them adding verbiage to make sure that the originator of a challenge has to be visible to the target or the power will blink off.

However, plenty of other people seem to see no problem with it. It may be that as an old-school player (3.what?), I'm not used to the mechanics over RP of recent D&D or computer games. Perhaps I need to give up my old-school view of the paladin. Or maybe I'm just a fuddy duddy.
 

Remove ads

Top